Give War A Chance's topics - tribe.net

PLEASE JOIN The Christopher J Smith Show TRIBE!

2008-11-09T06:17:43Z

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It's a Tribe just for you guys of like minds.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

McCain scrambles as numbers slip

2008-10-27T11:36:07Z

Obama sees several paths to Nov. 4 win

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.campaign27oct27,0,6380143.story

By Mark Z. Barabak and Maeve Reston | Los Angeles Times
October 27, 2008

INDIANAPOLIS - Facing a big deficit in money, momentum and troops, Republican presidential candidate John McCain hopes to eke out victory in nine days by winning several states he is now losing and by making a case against Barack Obama on taxes, experience and Democratic control of Washington.

Obama, by contrast, is marshaling the most lavishly funded presidential campaign in history, with more than 1.5 million volunteers locking down Democratic states and pushing deep into Republican territory. His message of change, which has remained consistent since he started running, will stay the same. In that way, the end-game strategies of the two campaigns have come to resemble the candidates themselves: McCain restless, scrappy and used to fighting from a crouch; Obama disciplined, deliberate and apparently confident. Both sides believe the race is not over, but it is clear that Obama has the upper hand, with multiple scenarios to reach the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. The senator from Illinois is ahead in every state he needs to carry and in several that McCain cannot afford to lose, including Colorado, Ohio and Virginia.

Worse for McCain, many political analysts believe there is little the Republican hopeful can do to change the dynamic of the race. "It would take some major external event, probably related to Obama making a humongous mistake or the release of some newfound pertinent information or some major international incident," said Matthew Dowd, who managed President Bush's 2004 re-election bid and is now a political independent. "The plane's on autopilot. Maybe lightning will strike the plane, but there's nothing [McCain] can do about it."

Aides to the senator from Arizona reject that interpretation. "What we've seen in many states right now are close races in the key states, and some have been moving closer as the week has moved on," said Mike DuHaime, McCain's political director. Privately, however, some McCain aides discuss his return to the Senate and speculate whether his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, will run for president in 2012.

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

How's the war going?

2008-10-27T09:54:34Z

Still giving it a chance?

ROLMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 5 replies

So is sally full of it or..........

2008-10-22T03:56:13Z

Is he really gonna go to IRAQ?

SOON Perhaps?

I truly hope so.

Go and make me proud to be an American!

posted in Give War A Chance - 5 replies

Tribes back and the wars are won!

2008-10-21T01:51:03Z

Wait.....Tribes back......

That's right, you guys are still giving war a chance.

posted in Give War A Chance - 4 replies

Bush Inflated Threat From Iraq's Banned Weapons

2008-09-24T20:56:46Z

Bush Inflated Threat From Iraq's Banned Weapons, Report Says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/05/AR2008060501523.html?hpid=moreheadlines

By Joby Warrick and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 6, 2008; Page A03

President Bush and top administration officials repeatedly exaggerated what they knew about Iraq's weapons and its ties to terrorist groups as the White House pressed its case for war against Iraq, the Senate intelligence committee said yesterday in a long-awaited report.

While most of the administration's prewar claims about Iraq reflected now-discredited U.S. intelligence reports, the White House crossed a line by conveying certainty about the threat that Saddam Hussein posed to the United States, according to the report, approved over the objections of most of the committee's Republican members.

"In making the case for war, the administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when it was unsubstantiated, contradicted or even nonexistent," Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), the committee chairman, said at a news conference. "As a result, the American people were led to believe that the threat from Iraq was much greater than actually existed."

The report, the last and most contentious of a series of Senate reviews of prewar intelligence, sought to compare the administration's public claims about Iraq with the intelligence reports available to them at the time. While many of the White House's statements -- such as Bush's warnings about a secret Iraqi nuclear program -- were amply supported by intelligence files at the time, the report said, others were not.
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Bush and other administration officials strayed far from official intelligence reports when it came to describing alleged ties between al-Qaeda and Hussein, the report said. It cited repeated statements by Bush, including his Oct. 7, 2002, Cincinnati speech in which he alleged that Iraq had "trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making" and had maintained "high-level contacts that go back a decade."

The report said that "statements and indications by the president and secretary of state suggesting that Iraq and al-Qaeda had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qaeda with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence."

Approved by eight Democrats and two Republicans on the 15-member committee, the report also highlights an October 2002 claim by then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld that Iraq had concealed its stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in underground bunkers too deep to be destroyed by air power alone. Rumsfeld, in testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, had told senators that U.S. officials did "know where a fraction" of Hussein's banned weapons were, adding that a "good many are underground and deeply buried," suggesting that ground forces were required to destroy them. His statement contradicted intelligence at the time that no such facilities were known to exist, the report states.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a committee member, called for a separate investigation of Rumsfeld's statements, which he said appeared intended to drive support for an invasion. "This is stunning: The secretary of defense, testifying before Congress about whether or not ground forces would be strategically necessary in a war against Iraq, said the executive branch 'knew' something that it did not know," he said.

The report's conclusions were sharply criticized by several Republican members, who accused the Democratic majority of rehashing old material for political advantage.

Committee Vice Chairman Christopher S. Bond (R-Mo.) called the new report a "waste of time" and said the allegations about administration officials were deliberately misleading. "It is ironic that the Democrats would knowingly distort and misrepresent the Committee's findings and the intelligence in an effort to prove that the Administration distorted and mischaracterized the intelligence," he said.

Bond also noted that key Democrats -- including several who ran for their party's presidential nomination this year -- also made public statements during the same period portraying Iraq's weapons as a threat to the United States. Those statements were omitted from the report over Republican objections, resulting in a flagrantly partisan document that is "flawed, incomplete and irrelevant," he said.

The committee's final report also focused on efforts by Bush appointees at the Pentagon and White House to collect intelligence on Iran. The effort included a series of meetings in Rome and Paris that featured Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian exile the CIA had labeled as a fabricator based on his role in the Iran-contra affair.

The group kept the CIA in the dark about Manucher's involvement, the report said, and as a result the agency never learned about "potentially useful and actionable intelligence" gained in a December 2001 meeting in Rome with two Iranian intelligence officers. The CIA also was prevented from learning of Ghorbanifar's attempts to obtain Pentagon funds for covert activities in Iran and otherwise influence U.S. government activities, committee members found.

The new report is the last in a series of Senate reports on the intelligence failures in the run-up to the Iraq war. The first such report, released in July 2004, focused on flaws in intelligence-gathering and analysis by the U.S. intelligence agencies but put off the politically explosive question of whether Bush administration officials deliberately distorted or misused the information they were given. The final report was delayed as committee members clashed over what the report should say and whether such a report was still necessary.

The earlier Senate report, released when Republicans controlled the chamber, concluded unanimously that U.S. intelligence agencies had botched the task of assessing Iraq's capabilities regarding weapons of mass destruction. It said key intelligence reports made unwarranted assumptions and overstated what was then known about Hussein's weapons programs. The report faulted the CIA and other agencies for failing to cultivate reliable informants and for basing key assessments on extrapolation and inference

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Just giving war some more of a chance!

2008-08-04T12:38:21Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc

Oh wait a minute, if the war was a right thing to do, Bush would not have to pardon himself of war crimes eh?

What a bunch of suckers most of yall are.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Somebody from their own club is calling them out as criminals for the way they got us into this war.

2008-06-01T05:07:01Z

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/05/30/2008-05-30_bush_mob_is_like_west_wing_sopranos.html

Bush mob is like West Wing 'Sopranos'

Friday, May 30th 2008, 4:00 AM

You are inclined to say that Scott McClellan is like the first one out of The Bada Bing Club, scurrying into the light and looking for redemption, except that it has become clear by now that even the hoods from "The Sopranos" would be out of their weight class with George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

The shame of McClellan and this new book of his isn't that it took him this long to develop a conscience or actual convictions about what he says he saw and heard in Bush's White House, especially in the runup to the war in Iraq.

The shame of this particular White House, the rock from under which McClellan reappears, is that no one is surprised for one minute about the story he tells, no one is shocked, no one is outraged. No matter how fast the book is selling.

One of the ironies of the hysterical reaction, mostly from the media, is that even a watered-down version of the truth about Bush and his lieutenants could sell this big.

For now the real outrage on McClellan comes from inside the White House, not outside. What McClellan does here is make work for them on their way out the door, because for the first time they will be forced to Swift Boat one of their own.

To save what is left of his sniveling reputation, Rove - noted analyst for Fox News - will have to take down one of his own. They all will, now that somebody from their own club is calling them out as criminals for the way they got us into this war.

You can call McClellan any kind of bum and weasel, a mouse who grew up to be a rat. Nobody will stop you. But when you look at the shameful cost of the war in Iraq, the cost of it in all ways, starting with the dead and the wounded, you tell me whether the real bum here is the one writing the book or the ones he is writing about?

"I would not personally participate in a process in which we are misleading the American people," former White House counselor Dan Bartlett said on the "Today" show yesterday morning, during McClellan's appearance there.

To the end Bartlett defends an administration as weak and lousy as we have ever had, Nixon's without the indictments, at least so far. But then Bartlett comes out of a culture where little Scooter Libby, given a get-out-of-jail card by the President, is treated like some kind of an American hero.

It is different with McClellan. They will get him good.

You were unpatriotic if you tried to go against them in the months before the war. You are some kind of traitor if you cross them on it now the way McClellan does.

McClellan, who helped sell this war the way ad companies used to sell cigarettes and now feels real bad about that, knew something long before he wrote a book: You can only sell war the way these people did if you have a willing and eager buyer.

posted in Give War A Chance - 5 replies

Pentagon institute calls Iraq war 'a major debacle'

2008-05-25T21:05:41Z

Pentagon institute calls Iraq war 'a major debacle' with outcome 'in doubt'

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/34101.html

By Jonathan S. Landay and John Walcott | McClatchy Newspapers

* Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008

WASHINGTON — The war in Iraq has become "a major debacle" and the outcome "is in doubt" despite improvements in security from the buildup in U.S. forces, according to a highly critical study published Thursday by the Pentagon's premier military educational institute.

The report released by the National Defense University raises fresh doubts about President Bush's projections of a U.S. victory in Iraq just a week after Bush announced that he was suspending U.S. troop reductions.

The report carries considerable weight because it was written by Joseph Collins, a former senior Pentagon official, and was based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations.

It was published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center.

"Measured in blood and treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a major war and a major debacle," says the report's opening line.

At the time the report was written last fall, more than 4,000 U.S. and foreign troops, more than 7,500 Iraqi security forces and as many as 82,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed and tens of thousands of others wounded, while the cost of the war since March 2003 was estimated at $450 billion.

"No one as yet has calculated the costs of long-term veterans' benefits or the total impact on service personnel and materiel," wrote Collins, who was involved in planning post-invasion humanitarian operations.

The report said that the United States has suffered serious political costs, with its standing in the world seriously diminished. Moreover, operations in Iraq have diverted "manpower, materiel and the attention of decision-makers" from "all other efforts in the war on terror" and severely strained the U.S. armed forces.

"Compounding all of these problems, our efforts there (in Iraq) were designed to enhance U.S. national security, but they have become, at least temporarily, an incubator for terrorism and have emboldened Iran to expand its influence throughout the Middle East," the report continued.

The addition of 30,000 U.S. troops to Iraq last year to halt the country's descent into all-out civil war has improved security, but not enough to ensure that the country emerges as a stable democracy at peace with its neighbors, the report said.

"Despite impressive progress in security, the outcome of the war is in doubt," said the report. "Strong majorities of both Iraqis and Americans favor some sort of U.S. withdrawal. Intelligence analysts, however, remind us that the only thing worse than an Iraq with an American army may be an Iraq after a rapid withdrawal of that army."

"For many analysts (including this one), Iraq remains a 'must win,' but for many others, despite obvious progress under General David Petraeus and the surge, it now looks like a 'can't win.'"

The report lays much of the blame for what went wrong in Iraq after the initial U.S. victory at the feet of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. It says that in November 2001, before the war in Afghanistan was over, President Bush asked Rumsfeld "to begin planning in secret for potential military operations against Iraq."

Rumsfeld, who was closely allied with Vice President Dick Cheney, bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the report says, and became "the direct supervisor of the combatant commanders."

" ... the aggressive, hands-on Rumsfeld," it continues, "cajoled and pushed his way toward a small force and a lightning fast operation." Later, he shut down the military's computerized deployment system, "questioning, delaying or deleting units on the numerous deployment orders that came across his desk."

In part because "long, costly, manpower-intensive post-combat operations were anathema to Rumsfeld," the report says, the U.S. was unprepared to fight what Collins calls "War B," the battle against insurgents and sectarian violence that began in mid-2003, shortly after "War A," the fight against Saddam Hussein's forces, ended.

Compounding the problem was a series of faulty assumptions made by Bush's top aides, among them an expectation fed by Iraqi exiles that Iraqis would be grateful to America for liberating them from Saddam's dictatorship. The administration also expected that "Iraq without Saddam could manage and fund its own reconstruction."

The report also singles out the Bush administration's national security apparatus and implicitly President Bush and both of his national security advisers, Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley, saying that "senior national security officials exhibited in many instances an imperious attitude, exerting power and pressure where diplomacy and bargaining might have had a better effect."

Collins ends his report by quoting Winston Churchill, who said: "Let us learn our lessons. Never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. ... Always remember, however sure you are that you can easily win, that there would not be a war if the other man did not think that he also had a chance."

posted in Give War A Chance - 18 replies

End to 'Major Combat' in Iraq 5th AnniversaryToday

2008-05-02T01:22:42Z

End to 'Major Combat' in Iraq Passes 5th AnniversaryToday, 6:01 PM
Bush Speech Declaring End to 'Major Combat' in Iraq Passes 5th Anniversary
By Al Pessin
Pentagon
01 May 2008

voanews.com/english/2008-05-01-voa68.cfm

This week marked the fifth anniversary of the speech President Bush gave on a U.S. aircraft carrier, in which he declared the end of major combat in Iraq. The anniversary came at the end of a difficult month for U.S. forces in Iraq, and caused some renewed debate about the course of the war. VOA's Al Pessin reports from the Pentagon.

It was a happy moment for the president. A year and a half after the September 11 attacks he was able to visit a U.S. aircraft carrier on its way home from the Persian Gulf, and speak to the crew under a banner that read "Mission Accomplished

BUSH: "Officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

In the speech, the president warned of more work to do to restore order to Iraq and to defeat global terrorism, but he told the crew that day that America had "seen the turning of the tide."

As violence spiraled upward during the following years, the president took a lot of criticism for that speech, and for the "Mission Accomplished" banner, as his press secretary Dana Perino acknowledged this week.

"President Bush is well aware that the banner should have been much more specific and said, 'Mission Accomplished for These Sailors on Who Are on This Ship on Their Mission.' And we have certainly paid a price for not being more specific on that banner," she noted.

As the speech anniversary passed on May 1, casualty figures indicated 52 American troops died in Iraq in April, making it the deadliest month since the height of the U.S. surge of operations last September. The operations director for the senior U.S. military staff, Lieutenant General Carter Ham, notes that American commanders have warned that even with the success they claim for reduced violence in recent months, there will be setbacks.

"While it is sad to see an increase in casualties, I don't think it is necessarily indicative of a major change in the operating environment," he said.

General Ham said Iraq's government has proved in recent weeks its willingness and ability to take on insurgents, including Shi'ite militias. And he does not believe most Americans will see the April casualty figure as an indication the situation in Iraq is deteriorating again.

Retired Lieutenant General Robert Gard, who has criticized the Iraq war effort, says that is not good enough.

"To say that violence is merely where it was in mid-2005, when it was unacceptable, that doesn't give you a political outcome," he noted.

But in a conference call with reporters marking the speech anniversary, General Gard acknowledged that ending the war quickly will be difficult, even if one of the Democratic Party presidential candidates is elected in November.

"I would guess, of course, which is all I can do, that they would begin to reduce the number of troops in Iraq very shortly after taking office," he added. "Now, where they would go from there would depend to a considerable extent on whether we have done the necessary work ahead of time in a diplomatic offensive."

On Thursday, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was asked about continuing opposition to the Iraq war among many Americans.

"The question is at this point not whether or not we should be in Iraq," he said. "We are there. The question is, what's the end game?"

The secretary says U.S. policy must remain focused on ending the U.S. combat role in Iraq, while also leaving a representative government in Baghdad that is an ally in the war on terrorism.

"We are where we are, and we have to manage properly how we get from here to where Americans would like us to be, and that is basically out of Iraq in any sense of a major combat role," he added. "But I think despite our impatience as we enter the sixth year of the war, we still have to handle the end of the war and the end of our participation in major combat, in a sensible and thoughtful way."

Referring to continuing 'major combat' hearkens back to President Bush's speech five years ago, reporting the end of "major combat." Officials acknowledge now that will likely not happen until sometime after the president leaves office next January, perhaps a considerable time after.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Another few months and the war is getting better!

2008-03-28T00:07:41Z

And that green zone is really safe these days.

Did sally go to Iraq yet?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Thanks for having such a great tribe DVD Burner

2008-03-23T21:50:07Z

I just wanted to say you are doing a great job here and want to encourage you to keep up the good work. It will be a great bounty indeed when your goals for world domination are fulfilled.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

LOGIC AND REALITY!

2008-03-16T09:26:21Z

join at your peril.

it's not for the meek.

http://tribes.tribe.net/politicsreligionothers?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5Bc78a34cc-d229-4c3d-92ce-a5fd807a8d79%5D

It's just the way the world is.

can you handle it?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

A VOTE TO CHANGE THE MODERATOR!

2008-03-16T09:16:20Z

What say you all?

It can be done.

Shall it be done?

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

This Tribe is boring!

2008-03-16T09:10:15Z

No one here has the balls to give a hoot about giving war a chance.

What a bunch of wussies!

Iraq and Afghanistan are doing really well eh?

Seems all that want to give war a chance are full of shit huh?

are you folks gonna vote for Hilliary or Obama?

Secretly now.........what say yall?

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Some facts for the ignorant!

2008-01-28T03:57:07Z

Garbage in, garbage out

Published: January 27, 2008 04:39AM

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=55620&sid=5&fid=1

A study documenting that President Bush and his top aides made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the run-up to the 2003 U.S. invasion has to rank as one of the least-surprising revelations to enter the public domain since President Clinton admitted to the American people that he had “a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate.”

By now, most of the “Bush Lied, People Died” bumper stickers are going on five years old, and the ones adorning Lane County cars have long since been soaked into illegibility.

Still, it’s helpful to remind everyone who continues to uncritically accept Bush’s explanations for why the United States must not end his trillion-dollar misadventure in Iraq that on this subject, his credibility leaves something to be desired.

The truth squad role in the latest study was played by the nonprofit Center for Public Integrity and its affiliate, the Fund for Independence in Journalism. After compiling and analyzing a database of administration statements about Iraq in the two years following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the researchers concluded that “President George W. Bush and seven of his administration’s top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements … about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.”

The report said the statements “were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.”

The two main sources of untruths are familiar to anyone who has paid any attention to the divisive war debate: allegations that Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction and claims that Iraq had clear links to al-Qaeda.

Bush counters all charges that he deliberately misled Congress and the American public with the argument that at the time he and other officials made the untrue statements, the intelligence services of the United States and several other nations, including Britain, believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It’s a fair rebuttal, and if it’s appropriate to forgive members of Congress and the American public for supporting Bush’s decision to go to war because they were acting on bad information, then Bush and his advisers are entitled to the same benefit of the doubt.

Sadly, that still leaves us in a morally indefensible position: The United States invaded another sovereign nation, unprovoked by any aggressive act, and directly caused the deaths of more than 150,000 innocent Iraqi civilians while the conflict systematically destroyed the economy and infrastructure of Iraq.

In the process, the lives of 3,931 American sons and daughters have been sacrificed, and another 29,000 U.S. troops have been wounded, thousands so seriously they will require intensive care for the rest of their lives. Heaven knows how many more will carry the psychological scars of this horrendous, unnecessary war with them to their graves.

Meanwhile, as the nation stands on the precipice of recession, the Iraq war continues to drain $275 million a day from the U.S. treasury.

All because of bad information.

The takeaway point here is agonizingly clear in hindsight: The decision to go to war — the most consequential decision any nation can make — was undertaken hastily and on the basis of both insufficient and inaccurate information.

The American people, manipulated by leaders who played on their fears, failed to demand that every reasonable alternative to war be exhausted. Why? Because they had bad information.

Congress abdicated its constitutional role to act as a check on the actions of the executive branch. Their excuse: Bad information.

Some clamor for retribution through impeachment for the misrepresentations Bush used to stampede the nation into war. But that sidesteps the collective responsibility all Americans share for the actions of their government.

What’s needed is a far more fundamental national soul-searching about the justification for ordering American troops into combat. It is incumbent on the American people to demand more of themselves and their leaders than they have since Sept. 11. The United States can ill afford to ever again unleash the dogs of war based on bad information

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

How is the war going?

2008-01-13T21:23:15Z

I figure I'd give war a few more months before asking in this tribe again.

so is america winning any wars lately these days?

someone in this tribe should be able to give me a yes answer of some kind right?

posted in Give War A Chance - 97 replies

haven't been watching T.V. as of late.......

2007-10-25T02:50:33Z

and haven't been America.

can anyone tell me how the wars in Iraq and els wheres America is battling is going?

Is America wining yet?

inquiring minds want to know cause we are still giving war a chance.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Knee jerk "Peace" activists

2007-09-12T21:38:02Z

Anyone notice that in a tribe dedicated to a pro war position we've allowed it to be effectively shut down by the incoherant ramblings of one terrorist sympathizer? I mean I understand not directly engaging his rants, after all it is impossible to reason with one who is out of touch with reality. No one else is posting though either. We let this nut job come in here and post, post after post, even replying to himself when no one else will pay him any attention. Again I understand not justifying the rantings of a deranged mind with a response but isn't it about time the rest of us used this tribe for what it was designed for? Or are we going to just yield the space to the lunatic fringe just because dealing with him is kinda like talking to the homeless guy on the corner talking about the martians who put his underware out side of his pants?

Undenyable facts of life:

1) We live in a world ruled by the use of force or the threat of its use

2) Peace requires two sides willing to live in peace and our current enemies have no interest in peace as they still think they can achieve victory

3) There are willing accomplices of our enemies who live inside of the United States and who use propaganda to make those rational enough to understand the realities of life feel isolated.

So what do we do about it?

I for one will not reply to the lunatic, but I will no longer be silent as long as someone wishes to talk with me about the war or the current situation. Until the Islamic Militants desire peace enough to make it a possiblity we must not just seek war but rather Victory. Unfortunately we've been waging a war instead of relentlessly killing the enemy. I think the surge program with its focus on going after the enemy rather than trying to just police the area and maintain peace is a step in the right direction though it certainly could be done better and more forcefully.

So unless the lunatic has converted you all to his message of surender, sound off, and let your opinion be known. If he replys to one of your post, ignore it. There is no requirement to reason with the unreasonable, but to allow his childish antics to silence you is even worse.

posted in Give War A Chance - 9 replies

NEW TRIBE...WARTIME

2007-09-01T22:19:17Z

This is a tribe to explore the Worlds Wars, Battles, and Conflicts
We hope that history does not repeat itself
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FOLKLORE AND MYTHOLOGY
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Religious and Spiritual Art (Apparitions

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Famous Quotes and Short Stories tribe
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BIRDMAN - tribe.net:

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Subliminal Messages and Propaganda - tribe.net:
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PROPHETS and VISSIONARIES... WE ARE... - tribe.net:
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SongWriters
http://tribes.tribe.net/963b1f92-281c-4bcf-b395-325a809d1b54?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5B963b1f92-281c-4bcf-b395-325a809d1b54%5D

AMAZING ART

http://tribes.tribe.net/29104d87-26ac-4a27-a01c-ac24e71ecf8a?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5B29104d87-26ac-4a27-a01c-ac24e71ecf8a%5D

Folk Art and Pop Art ( Folk- N- POP )

http://tribes.tribe.net/95d03c97-1166-4b76-88ea-d1b3ae450e28

The Prophecy of Magog - tribe.net:
http://tribes.tribe.net/d64e82b0-72ef-4c72-b5e7-299383c1d4e0

WARTIME
http://tribes.tribe.net/542c9b86-93b1-4b12-bc96-a754f89c5e8e?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5B542c9b86-93b1-4b12-bc96-a754f89c5e8e%5D

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

I feel a draft!

2007-08-13T21:09:53Z

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=359&objectid=10457333

Army Chief calls for return of draft to ease fatigue
5:00AM Monday August 13, 2007
By Paul Harris

The US "war tsar" has called for the nation's political leaders to consider bringing back the draft to help a military exhausted by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In a radio interview, Lieutenant General Douglas Lute said the option had always been open to boost the all-volunteer army by drafting in young men as happened in the Vietnam war.

"It makes sense to consider it."

Lute was appointed "war tsar" this year after President George W. Bush decided a single figure was needed to oversee military efforts abroad.

Rumours of a return to the draft have long circulated as the pressure from fighting two large conflicts builds on US forces. Politically it would be extremely difficult to achieve, especially for any leader hoping to be elected in 2008. Bush has previously ruled out the suggestion as unnecessary.

Lute, however, said the war was causing stress to families and affected levels of re-enlistment.

"This kind of stress plays out across dinner tables and in living-room conversations within these families. And ultimately the health of the all-volunteer force is going to rest on those sorts of personal family decisions."
A draft would revive bad memories of the 1960s and early 1970s when tens of thousands of young men were drafted to fight and die in Vietnam. Few policies proved as divisive.

- Observer

posted in Give War A Chance - 4 replies

Not for the meek. Please join this tribe!

2007-08-13T10:37:31Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/politicsreligionothers

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

So Uuummmmm, are you still giving war a chance?

2007-08-12T04:45:29Z

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 7 replies

New message for you "give war a chance" Tribers.

2007-08-05T05:55:24Z

best part about yall giving war a chance is watching arrogant dumb fucks like yourselves and Bush, Cheney and the military gettin their asses kicked in Iraq and otherwise and there aint nothin to undo the Pandora's box the arrogant sons of a bitches opened.

The war on terror aint workin. You know why?

Cause arrogant dumb fucks dont have it like that.

should have never gone into Iraq, and the CIA and the British should have never fucked with people in that part of the world the past 50-150 years.

And I am more American than any American thinks they are American. I just have common sense, something most that wanted to give war a chance in this tribe lack.

Keep enjoying that losing feeling.

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Hilarious! Even the moderator has jumped ship.

2007-06-25T14:59:05Z

I guess this, "give war a chance" stratagie just didn't go too well huh?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Star Ship Troopers!

2007-06-24T09:10:51Z

Oh yeah!

Actually........HELL YEAH!

http://www.tnt.tv/title/?oid=328903

I love this movie.

There are so many similarities.

similarities to what you say?

Life.

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Why This war is a Problem.

2007-06-24T08:11:31Z

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

HISTORY of Israel & "Palestine":
www.masada2000.org/historical.html

(this horrid litlle hate/extreme zionist propaganda site was shut down for about 6 months for defamation, and now it's back on.)

some historical account there. :)

HISTORY of Israel & "Palestine"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

history, israel, zionism, Israel, Palestine, jerusalem, British Mandate, manditory, Jewish, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, peace process, oslo accords, maps, history israel, history palestine, history, geography, refugees, palestinian refugees, ehud barak, barak, Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, Dayan, Moshe Dayan, Peace Now, Middle East Conflict

Israel + Jordan = "Pal estine" Before 1923

Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [Iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!

Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was mandated to Great Britain.

Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!

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In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.

Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River.

Our Palestinian Cousins started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it!

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. Their shame is so great because in their eyes running from Jews was like running from women. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!

The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.

From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank & Jerusalem] and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab [Jordanian & Egyptian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights high ground into northern Israel.

Now for some facts about "occupation." Firstly, the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians lost Gaza, the West Bank and Golan Heights (respectively) by participating in a failed attempt at genocide against the Children of Israel. Had Israel lost this 1967 defensive war, the Arab-Palestinians and their Arab allies would have raped, butchered or driven out every Israeli they could get their hands on and gobbled up all of Israel. Now, 35+ years later and despite the fact that Israel won a war BROUGHT UPON THEM, the Israelis are still willing to allow the Arab-Palestinians to have a state on much of the West Bank and Gaza if only they will stop sending their suicide/homicide bombers into the heart of Israel! (Talk about misplaced compassion!)

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.

Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!

ISRAEL SCREWS UP TOO!

Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!

Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?

Jordanian Flag
Proposed Palestinian Flag

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it IS preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had such an insane obsession of wanting the world to love them that they were willing to give back the entire Sinai Desert (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus, in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression! Thus far, Egypt has not aggressed against Israel militarily; however, the basest, anti-Semitic vile to come out of Egypt is not unlike the worse of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda! This 1982 Camp David Peace Accord has to be the coldest peace deal in history!

Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still "occupies" the West Bank with its ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel! But by remaining an "occupier," Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!
..

More on "Palestinian" Nationalism and the Real War Against Israel...

The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.

The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

HELLO!

2007-06-19T23:09:47Z

how things going?

.

Not too good huh?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Anyone here convinced yet that Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz.......

2007-04-16T09:16:02Z

and the bunch are out and out liars?

what say you?

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Uuuuummmmm..............

2007-03-22T16:41:12Z

BOO!

These wars and this current American administration is doing great, wouldn't you say?

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

JOIN THIS TRIBE!

2007-02-05T08:00:27Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/politicsreligionothers

Just want a beyond heated intelligent political and otherwise debate.

this tribe is not for the meek.
So if you know you are not going to be able to handle it, DONT JOIN!

Ok folks, thanks and let the games begin.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

WORLD WARS GOING GREAT! LET'S GIVE WAR A CHANCE.

2007-01-17T09:53:51Z

LMFAO!

What a great tribe.

posted in Give War A Chance - 77 replies

Go to war in Iran and........

2007-01-17T09:41:41Z

Americans will be hit on American soil and be wiped out in the middle east foever.

including Israel: (And Anglo American wanna bees.)

Leadership in Conflict With Hezbollah Faulted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011601663.html

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, January 17, 2007; Page A10

JERUSALEM, Jan. 17 -- Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, head of the Israel Defense Forces, resigned abruptly Tuesday after one of his predecessors presented findings of an internal review that sharply criticized the military's leadership during the war with Hezbollah last summer.

Since the end of the 33-day war, Halutz has come under heavy pressure from senior reserve officers to step down. The war failed to achieve the stated goals of freeing two Israeli soldiers captured by the Lebanese Shiite militia in July and stopping Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israeli cities.

Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz had been pressed to resign since end of war. (Eric Sultan - AP)

But Halutz insisted as recently as two weeks ago that he would remain in his post unless called on to resign by the Winograd Commission, an inquiry panel established by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to examine the performance of the military and political leadership during the war.

The commission's interim report was due in coming weeks. Olmert, who has also been severely criticized for his management of the war, reportedly expressed regret over Halutz's decision to resign after trying to persuade him to change his mind.

"It is the nature of people not to be overjoyed serving in a system that is not appreciated and not protected by those it represents," Halutz wrote in his letter of resignation, according to a translation published online by the newspaper Haaretz.

"We must promise never to reach a situation in which people of quality would hesitate to tie their fate and future with" the Israel Defense Forces, he wrote. "Neither good education nor a strong economy would help us then, and there is a danger that the threats the state of Israel faces will become more substantial."

Halutz was appointed the first air force officer to lead Israel's military in July 2005 by then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Among his first duties was to oversee the withdrawal of Israeli settlements and military installations from the Gaza Strip, an operation praised for its speed and precision. But it won him few supporters among hawkish lawmakers and reserve officers, some of whom opposed the withdrawal on strategic and ideological grounds.

Sharon's decision to appoint Halutz reflected the shifting priorities within the military from infantry to air power. Most Israelis serve in the military because of mandatory service requirements, making the chief of staff position one of the most highly esteemed and scrutinized in the country.

Born in 1948 in the Israeli town of Hagor to a Jewish family of Iranian descent, Halutz joined the air force in 1966. He flew F-4 Phantoms during the war of attrition in the Sinai between the 1967 and 1973 Arab-Israeli wars and was credited with shooting down three combat aircraft in the 1973 Arab-Israeli conflict, known in Israel as the Yom Kippur War.

The sharp public criticism of his leadership during the most recent Lebanon war, much of it from senior reserve officers, has focused on Halutz's heavy reliance on air power against an entrenched guerrilla force often fighting from residential areas.

Hezbollah fired about 4,000 short- and medium-range rockets into Israel, including more than 100 on the last day of fighting. The Israeli military said 117 soldiers died in combat during the fighting. In addition, 41 Israeli civilians were killed, most of them by rocket fire.

Halutz also came under public pressure when it was revealed that in the first hours of the war he took the time to phone his stockbroker with instructions to sell portions of his portfolio, fearing a decline in value because of the conflict.

Earlier Tuesday, Dan Shomron, a retired lieutenant general who led Israel's military from 1987 to 1991, told the Israeli parliament's defense and foreign affairs committee that the summer war in Lebanon was "run without any goal."

"The prime minister instructed the army to halt the rocket fire on Israel, but the army failed to translate it into a military objective," Shomron told the committee, although he did not call on Halutz to step down.

Halutz is the third general to resign as a result of the war against Hezbollah, whose performance against Israel's modern military has strengthened its position within Lebanon's fractious political system and drawn praise across the Arab world.

Maj. Gen. Udi Adam, head of the Northern Command, resigned in September. Halutz accepted the resignation two months later of Brig. Gen. Gal Hirsch, an esteemed younger officer who led the Galilee Division, the unit responsible for the Israel-Lebanon border. Hirsch called on Halutz to resign at the same time.

In his resignation letter, Halutz expressed "great pride" in his career and said he had "fulfilled my obligations."

Maj. Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky, the deputy chief of staff, will at least temporarily replace Halutz.

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Israeli Head Of Military Quits After War Critique

2007-01-17T09:31:02Z

To confront me virtually about how Isreal did not get ambushed and won the war of Lebanon?

Leadership in Conflict With Hezbollah Faulted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011601663.html

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, January 17, 2007; Page A10

JERUSALEM, Jan. 17 -- Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, head of the Israel Defense Forces, resigned abruptly Tuesday after one of his predecessors presented findings of an internal review that sharply criticized the military's leadership during the war with Hezbollah last summer.

Since the end of the 33-day war, Halutz has come under heavy pressure from senior reserve officers to step down. The war failed to achieve the stated goals of freeing two Israeli soldiers captured by the Lebanese Shiite militia in July and stopping Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israeli cities.

Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz had been pressed to resign since end of war. (Eric Sultan - AP)

But Halutz insisted as recently as two weeks ago that he would remain in his post unless called on to resign by the Winograd Commission, an inquiry panel established by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to examine the performance of the military and political leadership during the war.

The commission's interim report was due in coming weeks. Olmert, who has also been severely criticized for his management of the war, reportedly expressed regret over Halutz's decision to resign after trying to persuade him to change his mind.

"It is the nature of people not to be overjoyed serving in a system that is not appreciated and not protected by those it represents," Halutz wrote in his letter of resignation, according to a translation published online by the newspaper Haaretz.

"We must promise never to reach a situation in which people of quality would hesitate to tie their fate and future with" the Israel Defense Forces, he wrote. "Neither good education nor a strong economy would help us then, and there is a danger that the threats the state of Israel faces will become more substantial."

Halutz was appointed the first air force officer to lead Israel's military in July 2005 by then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Among his first duties was to oversee the withdrawal of Israeli settlements and military installations from the Gaza Strip, an operation praised for its speed and precision. But it won him few supporters among hawkish lawmakers and reserve officers, some of whom opposed the withdrawal on strategic and ideological grounds.

Sharon's decision to appoint Halutz reflected the shifting priorities within the military from infantry to air power. Most Israelis serve in the military because of mandatory service requirements, making the chief of staff position one of the most highly esteemed and scrutinized in the country.

Born in 1948 in the Israeli town of Hagor to a Jewish family of Iranian descent, Halutz joined the air force in 1966. He flew F-4 Phantoms during the war of attrition in the Sinai between the 1967 and 1973 Arab-Israeli wars and was credited with shooting down three combat aircraft in the 1973 Arab-Israeli conflict, known in Israel as the Yom Kippur War.

The sharp public criticism of his leadership during the most recent Lebanon war, much of it from senior reserve officers, has focused on Halutz's heavy reliance on air power against an entrenched guerrilla force often fighting from residential areas.

Hezbollah fired about 4,000 short- and medium-range rockets into Israel, including more than 100 on the last day of fighting. The Israeli military said 117 soldiers died in combat during the fighting. In addition, 41 Israeli civilians were killed, most of them by rocket fire.

Halutz also came under public pressure when it was revealed that in the first hours of the war he took the time to phone his stockbroker with instructions to sell portions of his portfolio, fearing a decline in value because of the conflict.

Earlier Tuesday, Dan Shomron, a retired lieutenant general who led Israel's military from 1987 to 1991, told the Israeli parliament's defense and foreign affairs committee that the summer war in Lebanon was "run without any goal."

"The prime minister instructed the army to halt the rocket fire on Israel, but the army failed to translate it into a military objective," Shomron told the committee, although he did not call on Halutz to step down.

Halutz is the third general to resign as a result of the war against Hezbollah, whose performance against Israel's modern military has strengthened its position within Lebanon's fractious political system and drawn praise across the Arab world.

Maj. Gen. Udi Adam, head of the Northern Command, resigned in September. Halutz accepted the resignation two months later of Brig. Gen. Gal Hirsch, an esteemed younger officer who led the Galilee Division, the unit responsible for the Israel-Lebanon border. Hirsch called on Halutz to resign at the same time.

In his resignation letter, Halutz expressed "great pride" in his career and said he had "fulfilled my obligations."

Maj. Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky, the deputy chief of staff, will at least temporarily replace Halutz.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Ok, and you know who you are, Who has the guts?????????

2007-01-17T09:29:50Z

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Hey, are you still liking this war?

2006-12-16T16:10:48Z

Check the date this was published and who signed on at the bottom. Then tell me how many here got hoodwinked.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

posted in Give War A Chance - 268 replies

Kissinger: Victory in Iraq no longer possible

2006-11-20T02:18:13Z

Kissinger: Victory in Iraq no longer possible
POSTED: 7:40 p.m. EST, November 19, 2006

www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/m...er/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A U.S. victory in Iraq is no longer possible under the conditions the Bush administration hopes to achieve, but a quick withdrawal of American troops would have "disastrous consequences," former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said Sunday.

President Bush has said the United States will remain in Iraq until the country's government "can sustain itself and defend itself," and a top Iraqi official disputed Kissinger's assessment of the three-year-old war in an interview with CNN.

But in a BBC interview Sunday morning, Kissinger said the U.S. course needs to be redefined -- and the breakup of Iraq could be the eventual outcome.

Kissinger served as national security adviser and secretary of state in the Nixon and Ford administrations and has advised the Bush administration on Iraq. In August 2005, he wrote in The Washington Post that "victory over the insurgency is the only meaningful exit strategy."

But on Sunday he said a military victory in Iraq was no longer in the cards.

"If you mean by clear military victory an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he said.

His comments come as a commission led by another former top diplomat, James Baker, prepares to offer its recommendations for a change of strategy in the war. The conflict has become increasingly unpopular in the United States as the American death toll nears 2,900, while waves of sectarian violence over the past nine months have left thousands of Iraqis dead.

However, a premature withdrawal of all 140,000 American troops now in the country risks bringing about a "dramatic collapse" of Iraq and eventually require U.S. forces to return to the region, Kissinger said.

Iraqi ambassador disputes Kissinger's conclusions
Instead, he recommended an international conference with Iraq's neighbors, the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and countries he said have a "major interest" in the outcome -- such as south Asian nuclear rivals India and Pakistan -- to craft a settlement.

"I think we need to separate ourselves from the civil war, and we have to move at some early point to some international definition of what a legitimate outcome is," Kissinger told the BBC. "By legitimate, I mean something that can be supported by the surrounding states and by ourselves and our allies."

The partition of Iraq on ethnic lines "might be an outcome," he acknowledged, "but it might be better not to organize it that way on a formal basis."

Samir al-Sumaidie, Iraq's ambassador to the United States, disputed Kissinger's conclusions. He said his government still could prevail over the chaos of a largely Sunni Arab insurgency, sectarian militias and Islamic fighters who swear loyalty to the al Qaeda terrorist network.

"I think a lot of people in Iraq, the members of the government and the members of the policy council for national security all believe that the situation is retrievable," he told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

"It's doable, but we need to have support of the right kind," al-Sumaidie said. "Now we have a lot of pressure on us, not only from our regional neighbors who are interfering, but pressures from our own friends."

Voters' dismay over Iraq contributed to the Democratic takeover of Congress in the November 7 midterm elections. The incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. Carl Levin, has called for a "phased redeployment" of U.S. troops as a way of pressuring Iraq's government to make the political compromises needed to end the violence.

"You want to make the point to the Iraqis that, folks, you've got to take responsibility for your own country," said Levin, a Michigan Democrat. "We cannot do it for you."

But Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, repeated his argument Sunday that more U.S. troops, not fewer, are needed in Iraq. He told ABC's "This Week" that such an increase would put "a terrible strain" on the Army and Marines. "But there's only one thing worse, and that is defeat," he said.

McCain is expected to be the ranking Republican on Levin's committee in the new Congress and took the first step toward a possible presidential bid in 2008 last week. He said the United States has been losing the war in Iraq and that American troops have been "fighting and dying for a failed policy."

"There's no good options," he said. "But the consequences of failure are severe, and I believe that we must do what's necessary to prevail. And I understand how terrible this is. The young men and women who are in the military today, and God bless them, they'll respond if called upon to."

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Why do people feel the need to protest at a Veterans Day Parade

2006-11-13T22:02:55Z

I was in the Parade in Houston and we had some ass holes protesting. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong enviroment!!!!!!!!!!!

posted in Give War A Chance - 7 replies

<CRICKTETS>

2006-11-10T10:21:38Z

Chirp......Chirp.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Kerry's Comments Yesterday About Troops

2006-11-09T23:38:24Z

I think he was totally out of line and needs to apologize. He is an idiot!

posted in Give War A Chance - 23 replies

Weapons missing in Iraq, says Report

2006-10-31T10:38:27Z

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=332585&sid=WOR

Washington, Oct 31: Terming as "disturbing" a report that speaks of thousands of weapons intended for Iraqi forces going missing, the special Inspector General for Iraq reconstruction today said has been asked to office to perform an audit regarding logistics support to the security forces.

Besides the missing weapons, the report also talked of large gaps in the fashion in which the transition is taking place in Iraq not only on the weapons accountability front but also on the training of security forces.

Special Inspector General Stuart Bowen said that his office had been asked to perform an audit regarding logistics support to the Iraqi security forces by the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John Warner, a Republican. And in the course of this his office looked at weapons accountability.

"We looked at about 370,000 weapons that were purchased with Iraq relief and reconstruction funds. Of that, less than four per cent were not accounted for. By that, I mean not issued nor warehoused. So over 96 per cent were accounted for," Bowen said adding that his "greater concern" was the lack of tracking of serial numbers-- an issue that has now been taken up by the multi-national security transition command-Iraq.

"They're tracking them moving forward. But the issue, really, that you pointed to in your opening about missing weapons needs to be put in perspective. Of the 12 categories of weapons that we looked at, three showed some lack of accountability. The total amount of weapons that either were not issued or were not warehoused was 14,000, about 3.8 per cent," Bowen said on a television channel.

Bureau Report

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Active-Duty Troops Launch Campaign to Press Congress to End U.S. Occupation of Iraq

2006-10-23T22:50:30Z

This is the solution. FINALLY! This is the RIGHT thing to do.
The faster this gets done the faster the world can get to buissness:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active-Duty Troops Launch Campaign to Press Congress to End U.S. Occupation of Iraq

65 Members to Send "Appeals for Redress" Under the Military Whistle-blower Protection Act

10/23/2006 9:58:00 AM

To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor

Contact: Trevor Fitzgibbon, 202-246-5303, or Alex Howe, or Laura Gross, 202-822-5200, for Fenton Communications

News Advisory:

For the first time since the U.S. invasion of Iraq, active- duty members of the military are asking Members of Congress to end the U.S. occupation of Iraq and bring American soldiers home.

Sixty-five active-duty members have sent Appeals for Redress to Members of Congress. Three of these people (including two who served in Iraq) and their attorney will speak about this on Wednesday, Oct. 25 at 11 a.m. EDT.

Under the Military Whistle-Blower Protection Act (DOD directive 7050.6), active-duty military, National Guard and Reservists can file and send a protected communication to a Member of Congress regarding any subject without reprisal.

What: Three active-duty members of the military and their lawyer, a retired U.S. Marine Corps JAG, make comments and take questions from the media.

When: Wednesday, Oct. 25, 11 a.m. EDT

Conference Call Details: 800-362-0574, Conference ID: "Active Duty"

www.usnewswire.com/

releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Stop followin a Nut Job.

2006-10-22T00:53:06Z

Top US general says Rumsfeld is inspired by God
Thu Oct 19, 3:35 PM ET
news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2006...61019193550

MIAMI (AFP) - The top US general defended the leadership of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, saying it is inspired by God.

"He leads in a way that the good Lord tells him is best for our country," said Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Rumsfeld is "a man whose patriotism focus, energy, drive, is exceeded by no one else I know ... quite simply, he works harder than anybody else in our building," Pace said at a ceremony at the Southern Command (Southcom) in Miami.

Rumsfeld has faced a storm of criticism and calls for his resignation, largely over his handling of the Iraq war.

But he got a strong show of support from the military establishment at Thursday's ceremony, where Navy Admiral James Stavridis took over Southcom's command from General Bantz Craddock.

"He comes to work everyday with a single-minded focus to make this country safe," said Stavridis who was a senior aide to Rumsfeld before taking on the Southcom job.

"We're lucky as a nation that he continues to serve with such passion and such integrity and such determination and such brilliance," said Stavridis, 51.

As head of Southcom, Stavridis will be responsible for military cooperation with Latin American countries, and will be in charge of the Guantanamo US military base in Cuba where more than 400 "war on terror" detainees are being held.

Craddock, who was named supreme commander of allied forces in Europe, hailed the role Southcom has played.

"Today I believe that we can say we were successful in our efforts and contributed to ensuring our nation's security through support on the global war on terror, and encouraged regional cooperation to enhance the security and stability in the region," he said.

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Pat Tillman's brother speaks out

2006-10-21T05:34:36Z

After Pat’s Birthday

Posted on Oct 19, 2006
Pat and Kevin Tillman
Courtesy the Tillman Family

By Kevin Tillman

www.truthdig.com/report/it..._birthday/

(Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.)

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.

Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman

posted in Give War A Chance - 3 replies

Bush accepts Iraq, Vietnam comparison

2006-10-20T05:49:39Z

Bush accepts Iraq, Vietnam comparison

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1768808.htm

By North America correspondent Michael Rowland
US President George W Bush has conceded there could be similarities between the war in Iraq and the Vietnam war.

Mr Bush has been asked whether he agrees with a newspaper columnist that the recent surge in violence in Iraq is similar to the Tet offensive in early 1968, widely acknowledged as a turning point in the Vietnam war.

"He could be right. There's certainly a stepped up level of violence," Mr Bush said.

But Mr Bush has once again vowed that America will stay the course in Iraq.

The President says he is saddened by the big jump in US deaths this month, but says this is a cost of victory.

Nearly 2,800 US troops have now died in Iraq.

Handover

Meanwhile, an Iraqi Government Minister visiting Canberra says foreign troops should be able to hand over control of the country by late next year or 2008.

Iraq's Oil Minister Dr Hussain al-Shahristani has held meetings with Australian ministers this morning.

He says the foreign troops will have to stay until the Iraqi army is able to take over, but progress is being made.

"We are not talking in terms of years, as you know we have already taken over responsibility for the security ... and almost half of the country now is under the control of Iraqi forces."

posted in Give War A Chance - 7 replies

Is America winning the war in Iraq yet?

2006-10-16T20:22:02Z

Still giving war a chance Yo!

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

U.S. troops "unlawfully killed" Terry Lloyd

2006-10-13T23:58:48Z

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:04 AM BST
By Eleanor Wason

OXFORD (Reuters) - One of Britain's most experienced television correspondents was unlawfully killed by U.S. soldiers in Iraq, an inquest into his death ruled on Friday.

Veteran war correspondent Terry Lloyd, 50, who worked for ITN, was killed in March 2003 in southern Iraq as he reported from the front line during the first few days of the U.S.-led invasion.

The ITN News crew, which unlike most journalists covering the war was unattached to any U.S. or British unit, had come under fire at Iman Anas, near Basra, while driving towards the port city in two vehicles marked "Press".

Lloyd, who had reported from Iraq, Cambodia, Bosnia and Kosovo during his award-winning career, and translator Hussein Othman, were killed.

Their colleague, French cameraman Fred Nerac, is still missing believed dead while another cameraman Daniel Demoustier was able to escape.

An inquest in Oxford heard that Lloyd, a father-of-two, had been hit by an Iraqi bullet but then died when he was struck in the head by an American bullet.

A British soldier, referred to only as Soldier B, said he saw a U.S. tank fire on three vehicles, one carrying Lloyd and cameraman Demoustier, another with Nerac and Othman inside, and a third Iraqi truck with a machine gun on the back.

"I had to duck down straight away -- windows were exploding inside the car," Demoustier said a few days after the incident

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Baker commision: No possible victory in Iraq

2006-10-13T01:01:06Z

Today, 1:16 PM
Baker's Panel Rules Out Iraq Victory

By ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
October 12, 2006

WASHINGTON — A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.

Currently, the 10-member commission — headed by a secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker — is considering two option papers, "Stability First" and "Redeploy and Contain," both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.

More telling, however, is the ruling out of two options last month. One advocated minor fixes to the current war plan but kept intact the long-term vision of democracy in Iraq with regular elections. The second proposed that coalition forces focus their attacks only on Al Qaeda and not the wider insurgency.

Instead, the commission is headed toward presenting President Bush with two clear policy choices that contradict his rhetoric of establishing democracy in Iraq. The more palatable of the two choices for the White House, "Stability First," argues that the military should focus on stabilizing Baghdad while the American Embassy should work toward political accommodation with insurgents. The goal of nurturing a democracy in Iraq is dropped.

The option papers, which sources inside the commission have stressed are still being amended and revised as the panel wraps up its work, give a clearer picture of what Mr. Baker meant in recent interviews when he called for a course adjustment.

They also shed light on what is at stake in the coming 2 1/2 months for the Iraqi government. The "Redeploy and Contain" option calls for the phased withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq, though the working groups have yet to say when and where those troops will go. The document, read over the telephone to the Sun, says America should "make clear to allies and others that U.S. redeployment does not reduce determination to attack terrorists wherever they are." It also says America's top priority should be minimizing American casualties in Iraq.

Both Mr. Baker and his Democratic co-commissioner, Lee Hamilton, have said for nearly a month that the coming weeks and months are crucial for the elected body in Baghdad. More recently, Mr. Baker has said he is leaning against counseling the president to withdraw from Iraq.

Mr. Bush yesterday spoke approvingly of his father's old campaign manager and top diplomat, saying he looked forward to seeing "what Jimmy Baker and Lee Hamilton have to say about getting the job done."

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Not the war this tribe was originally about

2006-10-13T00:58:27Z

but valid none the less.

http://www.israelnationalradio.com/Asx/eyshet-chayil.asx

The anti war folks probably wont understand and thats ok. For those of you who want to know feel free to listen for those who do not feel free to ignore.

posted in Give War A Chance - 15 replies

UK troops exacerbate problems in Iraq - head of army

2006-10-12T22:11:53Z

12 Oct 2006 21:09:16 GMT
Source: Reuters

LONDON, Oct 12 (Reuters) - The head of Britain's army said the presence of British troops in Iraq was exacerbating the situation and they should be withdrawn soon.

In an interview with Britain's Daily Mail newspaper, to be published on Friday, General Sir Richard Dannatt said British troops should "get ... out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems".

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

War Crimes Report Shows US Violations of International Law, Demands Prosecution of US Military and Civilian Leaders

2006-10-11T17:59:54Z

War Crimes Report Shows US Violations of International Law

Demands Prosecution of US Military and Civilian Leaders
www.informationclearinghouse.info/a...tm
10/10/06
Click here to read the report in full [pdf]
www.informationclearinghouse.info/p...df

The violence of the Iraq War, the chaos that has come to Iraq, can be traced directly to the illegality of the invasion and occupation of that country and the illegality of the tactics and weapons being used to maintain the occupation. U.S. War Crimes in Iraq and Mechanisms for Accountability documents these violations and calls on us all to demand investigation and prosecution of violations of international law by military and civilian leaders.

The report was prepared by Consumers for Peace.org with the advice of Karen Parker, noted lawyer in human rights and humanitarian law. Ms. Parker is President of the San-Francisco-based Association of Humanitarian Lawyers (www.humanlaw.org) and Chief Delegate to the United Nations for the Los Angeles-based International Educational Development/Humanitarian Law Project (IED/AHL), an accredited non-governmental organization on the U.N. Secretary-General?s list.

Dahr Jamail, noted independent journalist who spent more than eight months reporting from occupied Iraq, writes the following about the report:

I cannot endorse strongly enough this report prepared by Karen Parker regarding U.S. war crimes in Iraq. Having witnessed much of what is so well documented in this report, it is a clear and encompassing indictment of the Bush Administration for the war crimes they are directly responsible for in Iraq. Until evidence such as this begins to see the light of day in a court of law and the perpetrators brought to justice, the world remains unsafe and unstable from an administration determined to rule the world. After witnessing what they are capable of in Iraq, I have no doubt these people will not stop in their quest for world domination.? Instead, they must be stopped. And the only way to do that is bring the guilty to justice. This document will help achieve that goal. Click here to read the report in full [pdf]

Kathy Kelly, co-coordinator of Voices for Creative Non-Violence, three-time nominee for the Noble Peace Prize, who has visited Iraq 28 times in the last 15 years, writes of the report:

After spending four days in the fortified and secure Green Zone, in Iraq, during September 06, former Secretary of State James Baker III assured that the investigative panel he led had not spent any time wringing our hands over what mistakes might or might not have been created in the past. (NYT, September 20, 2006). The Consumers for Peace report on war crimes committed in Iraq helps us understand our responsibility not to wring our hands but rather to demand accountability from elected representatives by delivering this report to them and to local media. How many people killed? How many families torn apart? How many homes destroyed? How many livelihoods gone? How many lives ruined? How many cities sacrificed? We bear responsibility to end the war in Iraq, insist on just reparations for suffering caused, and promote careful, legal scrutiny of the crimes committed. This report beckons all who read it to stop collaborating with illegal, immoral warmongers who recklessly afflict Iraq. Click here to read the report in full [pdf]

Neil MacKay, multi-award winning Home Affairs and Investigations Editor of the Sunday Herald (Scotland), writes:

"What has happened in Iraq is a great sin and a great crime. The invasion and occupation have stained the concepts of democracy, freedom and liberty; and disgraced the good name of the people of both the United States of America and Great Britain. As a journalist who has investigated the roots of this war, and the on-going horror of what is happening in Iraq, I fully commend this report to readers. It is an important reminder of the blood which is on the hands of our leaders, and the shame that the governments of the UK and the USA have brought to the British and American people by perpetrating a criminal war in our name." Click here to read the report in full [pdf]

Click here to read the report in full
The report is being published on the internet by:

Consumers for Peace
www.consumersforpeace.org

Association of Humanitarian Lawyers
www.humanlaw.org

Traprock Peace Center
www.traprockpeace.org

Voices for Creative Nonviolence
www.vcnv.org

Uruknet
www.uruknet.info

Information Clearing House
www.informationclearinghouse.info

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Question about Fox?

2006-10-11T05:57:00Z

Is it really the only station amongst the soldiers that is allowed to be watched?

This is something I heard.

Also I have one friend that I am concerned about in the service in Iraq and another in Korea.

My brother was in the first Iraq.

So yes I do know.

Proof later if you like but by discretion only. For obvious reasons.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

23 soilders killed this week in Iraq!

2006-10-11T04:40:44Z

Is this war still "winnable"?

that's quite a bit in a week wouldn't you say?

posted in Give War A Chance - 18 replies

State of denial!

2006-10-03T08:54:25Z

why are most republicans like Foley?

posted in Give War A Chance - 8 replies

485 contacts between Mr. Abramoff’s lobbying team and White House officials from 2001 to 2004, including 82 with Mr. Rove’s office.

2006-09-29T09:25:47Z

www.nytimes.com/2006/09/29...ramoff.html

Report Links White House and Lobbyist

By PHILIP SHENON
Published: September 29, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 — A bipartisan Congressional report documents hundreds of contacts between White House officials and the corrupt lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his partners, including at least 10 direct contacts between Mr. Abramoff and Karl Rove, the president’s chief political strategist.

The House Government Reform Committee report, based on e-mail messages and other records subpoenaed from Mr. Abramoff’s lobbying firm, found 485 contacts between Mr. Abramoff’s lobbying team and White House officials from 2001 to 2004, including 82 with Mr. Rove’s office.

The lobbyists spent almost $25,000 in meals and drinks for the White House officials and provided them with tickets to numerous sporting events and concerts, according to the report, scheduled for release Friday.

The authors of the report said it was generally unclear from available records whether the aides reimbursed Mr. Abramoff for the meals or tickets. Ethics rules bar White House officials from accepting lobbyists’ gifts worth more than $20.

A White House spokeswoman, Dana Perino, said Thursday that while White House officials had not seen the report, earlier evidence showed that Mr. Abramoff had exaggerated his ties to the administration and was “ineffective in terms of getting government officials to take actions.”

Ms. Perino added, “It’s a real shame that so many of his clients were taken advantage of, lied to and ripped off.”

The report describes several instances in which Mr. Abramoff, who pleaded guilty in January to conspiring to bribe public officials, failed to get the action he desired from the White House, and described his overall record in lobbying the White House as “mixed.” But it also suggests that Mr. Abramoff’s lobbying resulted in Bush administration actions that benefited Abramoff clients, including decisions to distribute millions of dollars in federal money to Indian tribes with large gambling operations.

After an especially aggressive lobbying campaign in 2001 and 2002 involving 73 contacts with White House officials, Mr. Abramoff claimed credit for an administration decision to release $16.3 million to a Mississippi tribe for jail construction despite opposition from the Justice Department, the report found.

A copy of the bipartisan report was provided to The New York Times by Congressional officials who were granted anonymity because the document had not been released publicly.

Mr. Rove has described Mr. Abramoff as a “casual acquaintance,” but the records obtained by the House committee show that Mr. Rove and his aides sought Mr. Abramoff’s help in obtaining seats at sporting events, and that Mr. Rove sat with Mr. Abramoff in the lobbyist’s box seats for an N.C.A.A. basketball playoff game in 2002.

After that game, Mr. Abramoff described Mr. Rove in an e-mail message to a colleague: “He’s a great guy. Told me anytime we need something just let him know through Susan.” The message was referring to Susan Ralson, Mr. Abramoff’s former secretary, who joined the White House in February 2001 as Mr. Rove’s executive assistant.

Ms. Ralston, who did not return phone calls seeking comment Thursday, was lobbied scores of times by Mr. Abramoff and his partners, the report found, and was instrumental in passing messages between Mr. Abramoff and senior officials at the White House, including Mr. Rove and Ken Mehlman.

Mr. Mehlman, now chairman of the Republican National Committee, was then a senior White House political strategist. A national committee spokeswoman, Tracey Schmitt, said Thursday that in Mr. Mehlman’s White House job, “it was not unusual” that he “would be in contact with supporters who had interest in administration policy.”

In October 2001, the report said, Mr. Abramoff asked the White House to withhold an endorsement from a Republican candidate for governor of the Northern Marianas Islands, an American commonwealth in the western Pacific where Mr. Abramoff had clients; Mr. Abramoff was backing another candidate.

On Oct. 31, 2001, the report said, Ms. Ralson sent an e-mail message to Mr. Abramoff that read: “You win :) KR said no endorsement.”

In March 2002, the report said, Mr. Abramoff contacted Ms. Ralson to offer tickets to Mr. Rove and his family for use of a skybox during the N.C.A.A. tournament at the MCI Center in Washington.

“Hi Susan,” Mr. Abramoff wrote in an e-mail message.” I just saw Karl and mentioned the N.C.A.A. opportunity, which he was really jazzed about. If he wants to join us in the Pollin box, please let me know as soon as you can.”

Ms. Ralston replied: “Karl is interested in Fri. and Sun. 3 tickets for his family?”

Mr. Abramoff responded: “Done. Does he want to go Friday night or Friday afternoon or both?” The report said that Mr. Rove offered to pay for the tickets, prompting Mr. Abramoff to propose that Mr. Rove pay $50 per ticket “payable to me personally.”

The report cited numerous e-mail messages in which Mr. Abramoff referred to Mr. Rove and his visits to Signatures, a Washington restaurant owned by Mr. Abramoff.

On learning in July 2002 that Mr. Rove planned to dine at Signatures with a party of 8 to 10 people, Mr. Abramoff wrote to a colleague: “I want him to be given a very nice bottle of wine and have Joseph whisper in his ear (only he should hear) that Abramoff wanted him to have this wine on the house.” In another e-mail message, Mr. Abramoff directed his restaurant staff to “please put Karl Rove in his usual table.”

Ms. Perino, the White House spokeswoman, said the offer of a free bottle of wine was actually proof of how little acquainted Mr. Abramoff and Mr. Rove were because “Karl doesn’t drink alcohol.”

Disclosure of the report’s findings came as a federal judge in Miami agreed on Thursday to delay Mr. Abramoff’s imprisonment, but not for as long as the Justice Department wanted.

In court papers this week, the department asked that Mr. Abramoff, who has been sentenced to nearly six years in prison, not have to surrender for three months because of the need for his continued cooperation in the influence-peddling investigation in Washington that is said to involve several members of Congress.

But the judge, Paul C. Huck, agreed to allow Mr. Abramoff to remain free only until Nov. 15, saying “there comes a time when people have to pay the piper.” Mr. Abramoff pleaded guilty in Miami as part of an agreement with the Justice Department in which he confessed to corruption charges in Washington, and to fraud charges in Florida involving his purchase of a casino-boat fleet there.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

ABC Niteline Ambush caught on tape.

2006-09-28T07:30:15Z

That's right you can call me a fucked up dog, someone that loves violence, an idiot......call me whatever you like but when it came time for this driver to call the American millitary for backup.....well lets just say you couldn't call them for anything.

Sorry but I find this whole Haliburton thing totally funny. Sorry about the KBR drivers that lost their lives but hey.
them boys were totally in the wrong place..........period.
Best thing is watching our millitary in action in Iraq.
I bet before them boys went over there they thought they were gonna kick some Iraqi butt.

Check this video out. If you dont want to it's ok. I'm a bit raw. See.......... enjoy reality myself.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2495326

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

aaaawwwwwww yeaaaaaaaa!

2006-09-19T02:16:49Z

Yepper!

Give War A Chance!

yepper!

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 7 replies

Mildly anti war but oh so worth the time

2006-09-17T21:04:23Z

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4023196628588378412&q=freedom+to+fascism&hl=en

It borders on a duty to learn the information in this movie. I'm speachless and that doesnt happen often.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Pat's No Liberal, But...

2006-08-26T22:32:52Z

Since everybody knows Liberals and Progressives are just darn crazy, I wanted to post this article by arch-conservative, Pat Buchanan

Condi's "New Middle East"
by Pat Buchanan

August 07, 2006 10:06 PM EST
www.theconservativevoice.com/art...tml#

"Things are as they are, and their consequences will be what they will be. Why then should we seek to be deceived?"
Columnist Stewart Alsop, dead now these 30 years, once closed a column with this quote from the philosopher Bishop Berkeley. His column, I believe, was about Vietnam.

As we approach the fifth anniversary of 9/11, we, too, can see the shape of things to come.

In the ideology of "democratic fundamentalism" to which George
W. Bush converted after 9/11, we are simply in a rough patch on the glory
road to a democratic Middle East and "the end of tyranny on this earth."

In reality, our situation has never been more grim.

The successful experiment that featured the "freest, fairest
elections ever held" in Palestine is dead. Over 125 Palestinians have been
killed in Gaza. The Gaza Strip is a shambles. The terror wing of Hamas will
have no trouble recruiting in the rubble.

The same is true of Lebanon. The "Cedar Revolution" was a Bush
success, a beacon of hope. That Hezbollah won a dozen seats only seemed to
prove that the elections had indeed been free, fair and open to all.

Now Lebanon is in ruin. The 900 dead, thousands wounded, the
million refugees, the smashed infrastructure and the scores of thousands of
Westerners who have fled means years before Lebanon recovers, if ever she
does. Arab hatred of Israel and America is pandemic.

Hezbollah ignited the hostilities. But it was Israel that
escalated to rain destruction on a people and nation that had not
countenanced or condoned Hezbollah's provocation, but condemned it.

Think back. Had Reagan done to Lebanon, when half a dozen
Americans were seized as hostages, what Israel has done, when two soldiers
were taken hostage, Democrats would have denounced Reagan as a war criminal. Conservatives would have begged him to ease up.

Yet, almost to a man and woman, our politicians are falling all
over one another to express their 100 percent support of what Israel has
done to Lebanon. Even Israelis must feel a measure of contempt for this kind
of groveling.

Indeed, in Israel, dissent against the blitzkrieg is rising, and
the Olmert regime is being challenged and even condemned by courageous
Israelis for letting the air force have a free hand to smash Lebanon.

Moving on to Iraq, where the war has lasted as long as our war
on Nazi Germany, Gen. John Abizaid is warning that a descent into civil war
is now possible, and Bush concedes that, three years and three months after
"Mission Accomplished," the situation in Baghdad is "terrible."

Questions now on the table are: Will America let go? Will Iraq
break apart? Americans are not all that far away from a strategic disaster.

Whatever happens to Joe Lieberman in Connecticut, the new center
of gravity of the Democratic Party is antiwar. Democratic hawks are a dying
species. Al Gore now emerges, given his authentic antiwar credentials and
emergence as a world leader of the global warming movement, as the Left's
best hope for the nomination.

Kerry and Edwards, the 2004 ticket, know which way the wind is
blowing. Both have declared that had they known in 2002 what they know
today, they would not have voted for the war. Hillary senses the ground
shifting beneath her feet. Last week, she scourged Rumsfeld, called for his
resignation and denounced Pentagon mismanagement of the war.

Two years and three months before November 2008, the Democratic
Party has pulled out of the Bush coalition; two-thirds of the nation
considers Iraq a mistake; and a majority wants the troops home.

Can Bush sustain support for the war as the news from Iraq gets
worse and worse? For, if this war is lost on the home front, the war will be
lost in Mesopotamia.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban are fighting in larger units and,
colluding with drug lords, killing more Afghans and allied troops than they
have in five years. Hamid Karzai reigns in Kabul but does not rule.
U.S.-NATO forces are not losing battles, but they are insufficient in number
to win the war.

Iran, fearful of Bush in 2003, is now rejecting U.S.-EU bribes
and rejecting any suspension of its uranium enrichment program. Bring it on,
Ahmadinejad seems to be saying to Bush. As for Pakistan, the Islamists there
remain but a bullet away from custody of an atomic bomb.

While all these are trends, none seem to be going our way.

The Israeli-American ace of trumps, raw military power, is still
able to defeat armies and destroy states, but it has proven less effective
in eradicating guerrillas, and counterproductive in changing Islamic hearts
and minds.

If neither U.S. party is willing to show any independence of
Israel, if America will not address the root causes of Arab animosity, and
if we will not even negotiate with our enemies, we should probably pack up
and get out of the Middle East. Before we are thrown out.

posted in Give War A Chance - 33 replies

Something for the "give war a chance" nut jobs.........

2006-08-23T00:56:55Z

Over the weekend, Reuters White House correspondent Steve Holland was offered the rare treat of accompanying the president on a challenging bike ride around Bush's Texas ranch. Holland seemed impressed by the president's biking skills.

The president set a brutal pace for his accompanying riders, who included two Secret Service agents, White House spokesman Tony Snow and this reporter, who managed to gasp his way through the 12 1/2-mile (20-km) ride.

"What I would give to be 16 again!" Bush yelled out at one point as he mashed the pedals of his Trek bicycle through a wooded area.

In fact, Bush does not ride quietly, constantly shouting out in his Texas twang the names of trees and geographic features and yelling at himself :" Pedal faster,George".

"Air assault, Air assault!" he yelled as he started one of two major climbs, up Calichi Hill, which he named for the white limestone rock from which it is formed.

As Dan Froomkin added, "Yes, he actually yelled out 'air assault.'"

I know someone in my neighborhood who likes to yell out cartoonish phrases while he rides his bike. He's 11.

posted in Give War A Chance - 10 replies

Facing the truth about those that want to "give war a chance".

2006-08-21T06:14:27Z

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1086/369/1600/bushfinger4.gif

Hey, after all it's not me that's doing or did that.

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Is it worth it?

2006-08-17T19:44:36Z

To give war a chance......is it worth it?

Seems to me.....and this is my opinion...........talking with each other can have a better outcome.

What do you think?

After giving war a chance?

Intelligent answers only please.

posted in Give War A Chance - 6 replies

I am convinced....Give war a chance!

2006-08-07T10:51:52Z

You folks have convinced me to give war a chance.

Israel and the U.S. are looking ................

well how do you think they look now?

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

221 million dead and 1 billion wounded

2006-07-27T09:45:39Z

2 months ago Israel stated that WW3 had begun and since then they have already invaded two countries.

Gillerman: World War III already begun
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1148482080279

Any guesses where we will be in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years?

According to my calculations at least 220 million will be dead and 1 billion wounded by 2012. I’m re-linking what I wrote since the dead are now part of this count http://www.chycho.com/two_degrees.html

How silly we are for allowing this to happen

posted in Give War A Chance - 14 replies

Must see: "I know I'm not alone"

2006-07-24T18:00:01Z

Micheal Franti's documentary hangs in Iraq and Isreal, and makes some cool music, but mostly reaches out to people that reach out back to him. Lots of real gooey stuff comes across as a consequence.

At the end of it all, I think fuck all this rhetorical bullshit dialog, take a moment to look at the people. Feel. Think. Feel some more. His music stays, the visuals stay.

See it. Then let's talk about why war and chance seems uterally barbic and incredibly insane.

trying to love,
natalie

posted in Give War A Chance - 26 replies

OH HEY!!!!!!

2006-07-21T15:39:30Z

Now it's time for Israel to show PROOF of where they bombed, is where some sucsess is.

In other words.........it's time for Israel to pony up what proof they have that Hezbullah In Lebanon was where they bombed. the world needs proof of where Israel bombed is where what has been where Israel has been saying Hezbullah In Lebanon has been hiding.........WHATEVER.. And what Israel's (Kinda sort of.) accomplished by the bombs that they dropped on Hamass\Hezbullah In Lebanon?

Pics/video of Hezbullah and so on killed. All I see killed are civillians and the sort..........

Answers from this tribe please.

If not...........................

P.S. Everything posted here is quite accurate and requires an answer from those that are in this tribe.................answers that are what they are.......forever.

i dont think anyone....not even sally can own up to that.

Please prove me wrong as much as you like in this thread many times over.

Thank you.

posted in Give War A Chance - 3 replies

What giving war a chance is really all about.......

2006-07-17T16:13:23Z

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/08/world/middleeast/08reconstruct.html

U.S. Officer Reported Ready to Plead Guilty in Bribery Case Involving Iraq Building Contracts
Sign In to E-Mail This Print Reprints Save

By JAMES GLANZ
Published: July 8, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 7 — A senior Army Reserve officer who is a former California police chief smuggled $120,000 in stolen cash out of Iraq and accepted a sport utility vehicle in a series of bribes for helping steer construction contracts in Iraq to an American businessman, court papers filed Friday said.

The officer, Lt. Col. Bruce D. Hopfengardner, has offered to plead guilty to charges of conspiracy, bribery and money laundering for his role in the bribery and kickback scheme, the court papers say.

The case has resulted in three guilty pleas, with officials expecting more.

Colonel Hopfengardner would be the first senior Army officer to plead guilty in the case, which investigators at a federal oversight agency uncovered.

Two other senior Army Reserve officers, Lt. Col. Debra Harrison of Trenton and Lt. Col. Michael Wheeler of Amherst Junction, Wis., have been arrested, and court papers suggest that at least one higher-ranking officer is implicated.

The case involves a conspiracy that took shape in late 2003 and reached its peak in 2004, a chaotic time when contractors were routinely paid with stacks of $100 bills seized from Saddam Hussein's government or derived from Iraqi oil proceeds.

Ginger Cruz, deputy inspector general at the oversight agency, the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, said the involvement of senior officers in stealing Iraqi money was especially troubling.

"For all of the bravery and dedication, it was a corrupting environment," Ms. Cruz said in an interview at the American Embassy here. "And for those few who were corrupt, we would hope that the punishment serves as a strong message to the Iraqis."

She said that for the first time, the fraud division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation had agreed to send agents to Baghdad to work with the special inspector general's office on corruption. Ms. Cruz said that 86 cases were under investigation and that the caseload was a prime reason that the F.B.I. had joined the effort.

Messages left with Colonel Hopfengardner's lawyer were not returned late Friday. No date for a hearing on his plea has been set.

Two civilians have previously pleaded guilty in the case, Philip H. Bloom, the businessman at the center of the ring, and Robert J. Stein Jr., an official with the American provisional government in Hilla, in southern Iraq, at the time.

Although the entire ring, which secured fraudulently obtained contracts over a wide area south of Baghdad, has been embarrassing, Colonel Hopfengardner's role may prove to be particularly damaging, because his responsibilities revolved around training and equipping Iraqi security forces.

The court papers say Colonel Hopfengardner helped Mr. Bloom obtain many contracts relating to building the main police academy and training center in the region in early 2004, as well as other contracts for mobile command posts and demolition work.

The inspector general has reported that after Mr. Bloom had obtained his contracts, he often performed little or none of the work.

The weakness of the Iraqi security forces has been an issue across Iraq, but it was a particularly crucial factor in the Hilla region, where in April 2004 the main insurgency broke out and the Iraqi forces retreated in disarray. It is unclear what specific effects the fraudulent contracts for the police academy had, but Colonel Hopfengardner was also involved in at least one other failed program to equip the Iraqi forces, said American officials who were in the region at the time.

On the other hand, the court papers suggest that tension between Colonel Hopfengardner and others in the ring may have had a hand in unmasking it. While Colonel Hopfengardner received the sport utility vehicle, a Yukon Denali with features like a leather interior, and at least $175,000 in money sent electronically to accounts he controlled, the papers suggest, he wanted more.

In an e-mail message with the subject line "HOT," Mr. Stein told Mr. Bloom that the colonel had just stormed out of an office after demanding an additional $60,000 in bribes, saying he had not been paid what had been promised. "I sent the funds a week ago," Mr. Bloom replied. "Tell him to stop acting like a child."

posted in Give War A Chance - 44 replies

get your war on

2006-07-13T08:33:25Z

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

More Neo-Nazis in Military

2006-07-08T18:23:52Z

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070701096.html

Watchdog Group: More Neo-Nazis in Military

By GARRY MITCHELL
The Associated Press
Friday, July 7, 2006; 7:40 PM

MOBILE, Ala. -- The number of neo-Nazis and skinheads in the armed forces is increasing, according to a watchdog group that claims the military is relaxing standards amid pressure to sign up recruits during the Iraq war.

The Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report Friday that the Pentagon is violating its zero-tolerance policy against hate groups and called on Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to put a stop to it.

Neo-Nazis set up their equipment before beginning their demonstration on the state Capitol steps, Monday, July 3, 2006, in Olympia, Wash. Hundreds of protesters sang, danced and traded insults with a small group Monday, the third such rally this year in this liberal college town. The State Patrol reported no arrests or incidents during the rally and protests. Authorities separated the two groups with a chain-link fence, barricades and rows of troopers in riot gear. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson) (Elaine Thompson - AP)

Israeli soldiers take up positions in a house on the outskirts of Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip in a major operation backed by attack helicopters. (Oded Balilty via Getty Images)

But Pentagon officials said they continue to try to weed out supremacists and those who advocate forms of discrimination.

"This is a serious issue, but we don't see an increasing trend," said Army spokesman Paul Boyce.

The report, posted on the Montgomery center's Web site, says recruiting shortfalls caused by the Iraq war have allowed "large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists" to infiltrate the military.

"We don't know the real number," said Mark Potok, the center's Intelligence Project director.

He estimated it could be thousands based on the investigation, which found racist Web sites giving advice on how to engage in white supremacist activity in the military while avoiding detection.

Potok contends there's been a relaxation of the recruitment rules amid pressures to sign up recruits during the Iraq war. "Recruiters are saying that," he said Friday.

In a letter to Rumsfeld dated on Friday, SPLC President Richard Cohen warned that any extremist in the military could turn out to be the next Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber who was executed in 2001.

McVeigh had advocated far-right ideology when he was in the Army and recruited two fellow soldiers to aid his 1995 bomb plot. In 1996, then-Defense Secretary William Perry imposed a crackdown on extremists.

Despite Perry's intentions, Cohen claims members of neo-Nazi and other extremist groups are still infiltrating the ranks.

"Even when their activities are exposed, they often are allowed to continue in uniform," his letter says.

Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke said Defense Department policy requires that "military personnel must reject participation in organizations that espouse supremacist causes; attempt to create illegal discrimination based on race, creed, color, sex, religion or national origin; advocate the use of force or violence; or otherwise engage in efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights."

Boyce said the Army sponsors gang-identification and gang prevention classes for its members worldwide. And Army recruiter Capt. Brian Bettis of Mobile said he screens recruits with police background checks and looks at tattoos for any sign of racist leanings.

"I've become an expert at tattoos. We take it very seriously," Bettis said.

___

On the Net:

http://www.splcenter.org

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Still giving war a chance!

2006-06-30T23:41:46Z

LMFAO!

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

The Fog of War - Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara (2004)

2006-06-18T08:15:12Z

The Fog of War - Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara (2004) was broadcasted on the History channel this weekend.

Uncanny how it resembles Vietnam. Uncanny how he resembles Rummy.

Any thoughts?

I don’t expect any answers from this tribe but all are welcomed.

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Degrees of Separation, the Numbers Game, and How to Bring Peace to the World

2006-06-07T20:42:23Z

Best viewed at http://www.chycho.com/two_degrees.html where all the formatting, images, tables, and links are in place

Best

Chycho

Degrees of Separation, the Numbers Game, and How to Bring Peace to the World

To bring peace to the world we must first understand the consequences of war, specifically how many people it affects. The calculations required to truly understand the number of people that are directly affected by war are quite simple. To get a ballpark estimate, all we have to do is look at the number of contacts we have in our cell phone. If we got hurt then the odds are that most of our contacts would hear about it. If we also take into consideration that they have families and friends, then the number of people that would know about our demise could be very substantial. What we will do in this article is come up with the lowest estimate of the number of people that would be directly affected per casualty, then extrapolate that number to get a better understanding of what the numbers in war imply. Once we fully understand the magnitude of the consequences of war, then it should be relatively easy to implement the changes required, on a personal level, to help stop the proliferation of war.

Two Degrees of Separation:

The average family size in the United States of America and Canada is slightly over three. If we include 2 grandparents per family, then the average immediate family size would increase to 5 (a father, a mother and a child, plus 2 grandparents). To give you a perspective of how low this number is, the average family size in Iraq is 6, not including the grandparents.

The definition for an extended family is " a group of relatives, such as those of three generations, who live in close geographic proximity rather than under the same roof." If we assign 4 extended family members per individual in a family, excluding the centralized person, then the average extended family size would be 16. For each extended family member we will assign 10 people, representing their family and friends. This is absolutely the lowest estimate for an individual. Most people have substantially more then 10 friends and family. We will also assign 4 additional family members for each friend of the extended family. Figure 1 represents this distribution, showing the minimum number of people who would be directly affected for each person killed or wounded in war. This number totals 821.

FIGURE 1

A Numbers Game:

Afghanistan and Iraq

Now that we have established the minimum number of people affected per casualty, we can estimate the number of people that have been directly affected by the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Table 1 lists the number of casualties and the total number of people affected for Canada, The United States, Coalition Countries, Afghanistan and Iraq.

The numbers that require special consideration from this table are the total number of people affected in Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan has a total population of approximately 31 million while Iraq has a population of approximately 27 million. The total number of people affected in these countries is more then the total population of the country. This implies that the average Afghani citizen knows or has heard of more than 1 person that has been killed or seriously injured as a direct result of the war. In Iraq, the average person knows or has heard of, on a first hand bases, of approximately 13 people who have been killed or seriously wounded. To truly put this number into perspective we should ask ourselves, how many people do we know that have been killed or wounded by the war so far?

TABLE 1

Vietnam

There has been a tremendous amount of discussion comparing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to that of Vietnam. Table 2 lists the number of people affected by the Vietnam War for the United States, and South and North Vietnam.

The total number of people affected in the United States at the end of the Vietnam War was approximately 170 million, representing over 80% of the population in 1975. This implies that the majority of Americans were directly affected by the war in Vietnam, which is most likely the reason why the war came to an end for the United States at that time. For the Vietnamese, the average citizen knew or had heard of at least 46 people who had been killed or wounded by the war, which would explain why the United States lost the war in Vietnam (an estimate of 50 million for the population of Vietnam for 1975 was used for this calculation).

TABLE 2

World War II & III

The numbers above should indicate the direction that we are headed in the wars of Afghanistan and Iraq. In Iraq we are getting close to affecting people on the same level as Vietnam once the number of people affected by Depleted Uranium and the 12-year sanctions are taken into account. Unfortunately this disaster does not seem to be the end of the road for the American mission. In early May of this year, 2006, the president of the United States acknowledged that 2001 was the beginning of World War III. His remarks were confirmed by Israel's UN Ambassador Dan Gillerman, when he also acknowledged that World War III had already begun during a routine UN Security Council meeting on May 30, 2006. These two statements from two of the main nuclear powers in the world should be considered frightening since each, individually, is capable of starting World War III.

An analysis of the total number of dead at the end of World War II is shown in Table 3. The total number of wounded is unknown, and considering the magnitude of a World War, the number of killed is sufficient for our analysis. The total number of dead during World War II was estimated to be 62.5 million. The total population of the world during that period was approximately 2 billion, which means that on average each person would have known or heard of 26 people that had been killed in the war.

TABLE 3

An estimate of the number of dead and wounded that can be expected for World War III is shown in Table 4. This table was obtained using reverse extrapolation. The population of the world is estimated to be seven billion by 2012. Using the starting number of 26, obtained from the World War II calculation above, it is expected that by 2012 approximately 221 million people will be dead. If the ratio of the dead vs. wounded is taken into account to be the same as the average numbers obtained from the Iraq war then we can assume that approximately 4.3 people will be wounded for every person killed (This number is obtained from the average kill to wounded ratio for the United States and the Medium Iraq casualty estimates). This calculation implies that the total number of wounded in World War III will be approximately 1 billion. Keep in mind that these numbers do not take into account the number of people who will be affected by Depleted Uranium and the environmental catastrophes that will follow as a direct result of the war.

TABLE 4

These numbers, 221 million dead and approximately 1 billion wounded, are what the United States and the Israeli ambassador have just stated to be the price which the world will pay for the advancement of an agenda that is still not very clear. If the purpose of this so-called "War on Terror" is to protect human life and reduce suffering, then it is beyond my understanding how this task will be accomplished by killing 221 million people and seriously injuring 1 billion. But then again I am just an analyst and do not pretend to know of a higher purpose beyond saving the life of 1 out of every 7 people that will either be dead or seriously wounded in the next 6 years.

How to Bring Peace to the World:

The most important thing that we can do on an individual basis beyond knowing what we are meant to consumer, whom we are meant to support and what we are meant to know, is attending Peace Rallies. If we apply the basic premise discussed above under "Two degrees of Separation", then for each person attending a peace rally, many people could be affected. Unfortunately attending a peace rally does not usually have the same affect, on a personal level, as compared to attending a funeral or visiting a friend in the hospital. Therefore, it would be rather optimistic to assume that by attending a peace rally we would directly affect 821 people. However it is reasonable to assume that if we are vocal enough, we may have a partial influence to "One Degree of Separation" of our family. This would mean that for every person that attends a peace rally approximately 181 people could be affected. If we assume that peace can be accomplished through a majority, then if half the world's population is affected through activism, it should be possible to stop World War III. Table 5 lists the minimum number of people that are required to attend the coming peace rallies to influence half the world. This number is 18 million.

TABLE 5

In 2003, leading up to the invasion of Iraq, it was estimated that between 6 to 10 million people attended peace rallies in approximately 800 cities around the world. These numbers fell short of what was required to stop the invasion of Iraq, however they were sufficient to influence the leaders of certain countries, such as Canada, to refrain from joining the war. If as a world community we hope to save ourselves from the pain and anguish proposed by certain people, then we require at least 18 million people to join in a common cause. To bring peace to the world and save the lives of hundreds of millions of people it is required that a mere 18 million of us, representing 0.28% of the world’s populace, to rise up and demand peace with one voice.

I hope we can do it.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Dixie Chick Retracts Bush Apology

2006-06-04T10:57:56Z

"I don't feel that way anymore," she told Time magazine for its issue hitting newsstands Monday. "I don't feel he is owed any respect whatsoever."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/22/entertainment/main1639118.shtml

posted in Give War A Chance - 5 replies

Who should really go to prison?

2006-06-01T16:26:52Z

Should the Marines of the Haditha murders go to prison or should those that lied to the Marines about what this war was supposed to be about go to prison for treason?

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

"BAGHDAD ER"

2006-05-15T12:00:19Z

has anyone seen it yet or are you gonna watch it?

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/baghdader/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category5_show0

After you have watched it, will you still think you should "Give war a chance"?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

ACLU challenges funeral protest ban

2006-05-11T14:46:12Z

ACLU challenges funeral protest ban

Portions of a new Kentucky law intended to prevent protesters from disrupting military funerals are unconstitutional, the American Civil Liberties Union said in a federal lawsuit filed May 1.

The ACLU argues that sections of the law go too far in limiting freedom of speech and expression.

The lawsuit puts the ACLU, which routinely handles discrimination cases involving gays and lesbians, on the same side as Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., known for its anti-gay protests.

Church members have protested at military funerals in several states. The church claims the soldiers’ deaths are a sign of God punishing America for tolerating homosexuality.

The Kentucky law is so broad that people could unknowingly violate it by stopping to chat on a public sidewalk near a funeral home, said LiliS. Lutgens, an ACLU attorney in Louisville. It also could prevent pro-military groups from participating in counter-protests outside memorial services, she said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ACLU claims it supports every ones rights, but I disagree. While there may be some inconsistencies with this new law, something needs to be done to protect the Veterans who laid down there lives for this country. If the ACLU doesn't like this law, then they had better come up with something better. Because to protest at a fallen soldiers funeral for your own political agenda is treasonous!

posted in Give War A Chance - 3 replies

Giant U.S. embassy rising in Baghdad

2006-05-08T00:42:23Z

Giant U.S. embassy rising in Baghdad

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-04-19-us-embassy_x.htm

By Barbara Slavin, USA TODAY
Three years after a U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein, only one major U.S. building project in Iraq is on schedule and within budget: the massive new American embassy compound.
The $592 million facility is being built inside the heavily fortified Green Zone by 900 non-Iraqi foreign workers who are housed nearby and under the supervision of a Kuwaiti contractor, according to a Senate Foreign Relations Committee report. Construction materials have been stockpiled to avoid the dangers and delays on Iraq's roads.

"We are confident the embassy will be completed according to schedule (by June 2007) and on budget," said Justin Higgins, a State Department spokesman.

The same cannot be said for major projects serving Iraqis outside the Green Zone, the Senate report said. Many — including health clinics, water-treatment facilities and electrical plants — have had to be scaled back or in some cases eliminated because of the rising costs of securing worksites and workers.

"No large-scale, U.S.-funded construction program in Iraq has yet met its schedule or budget," the committee report said.

Security is the "No. 1 factor that impedes progress," said Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction.

Contractors and Army Corps of Engineers officials "are being shot at or threatened every day," he said. At least 467 contractors in Iraq have been killed, said Christine Belisle, a spokeswoman for the special inspector general.

According to the special inspector general's office, which Congress created to oversee U.S. projects in Iraq, 25% of nearly $21 billion for Iraq reconstruction has been diverted to pay for security.

The massive new embassy, being built on the banks of the Tigris River, is designed to be entirely self-sufficient and won't be dependent on Iraq's unreliable public utilities.

The 104-acre complex — the size of about 80 football fields — will include two office buildings, one of them designed for future use as a school, six apartment buildings, a gym, a pool, a food court and its own power generation and water-treatment plants. The average Baghdad home has electricity only four hours a day, according to Bowen's office.

The current U.S. Embassy in Iraq has nearly 1,000 Americans working there, more than at any other U.S. embassy.

Most embassy functions are now housed in Saddam Hussein's former Republican Palace, also within the Green Zone. The U.S. government and military, which occupied many of Saddam's palaces after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, are turning the facilities back to the Iraqi government.

The lead contractor on the embassy project is a Kuwaiti firm, First Kuwaiti Trading & Contracting, Higgins said. There are also five U.S. subcontractors, but he would not name them for security reasons.

The Senate report recommended that First Kuwaiti consider hiring more Iraqis, if they can be properly screened.

Posted 4/19/2006 12:51 AM ET

posted in Give War A Chance - 8 replies

judge for yourself

2006-05-06T05:02:41Z

I got this from elsewheres:
_____________________________________________

judge for yourself

I don't know how accurate this is, but sounds interesting, and quite plausible.

"Bird Flu"

Do you know that 'bird flu' was discovered in Vietnam 9 years ago?
Do you know that barely 100 people have died in the whole world in all that time?
Do you know that it was the Americans who alerted us to the efficacy of the human antiviral TAMIFLU as a preventative.
Do you know that TAMIFLU barely alleviates some symptoms of the common flu?
Do you know that its efficacy against the common flu is questioned by a great part of the scientific community?
Do you know that against a SUPPOSED mutant virus such as H5N1, TAMIFLU barely alleviates the illness?
Do you know that to date Avian Flu affects birds only? N Korea????
Do you know who markets TAMIFLU?
ROCHE LABORATORIES.

Do you know who bought the patent for TAMIFLU from ROCHE LABORATORIES in 1996?
GILEAD SCIENCES INC.

Do you know who was the then president of GILEAD SCIENCES INC. and remains a major shareholder?
DONALD RUMSFELD, the present Secretary of Defence of the USA.

Do you know that the base of TAMIFLU is crushed aniseed?
Do you know who controls 90% of the world's production of this tree?
ROCHE.

Do you know that sales of TAMIFLU were over $254 million in 2004 and more than $1000 million in 2005?
Do you know how many more millions ROCHE can earn in the coming months f the business of fear continues?

So the summary of the story is as follows:

Bush's friends decide that the medicine TAMIFLU is the solution for a pandemic that has not yet occurred and that has caused a hundred deaths
worldwide in 9 years.
This medicine doesn't so much as cure the common flu.
In normal conditions the virus does not affect humans.
Rumsfeld sells the patent for TAMIFLU to ROCHE for which they pay him a fortune.
Roche acquires 90% of the global production of crushed aniseed, the base for the antivirus.
The governments of the entire world threaten a pandemic and then buy industrial quantities of the product from Roche.
So we end up paying for medicine while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush do the business.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Annie

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

US begins defence at UN torture committee

2006-05-05T23:22:18Z

US begins defence at UN torture committee

Today, 4:19 PM

05 May 2006 12:22

The United States has begun defending its treatment of foreign terrorism suspects held abroad in front of a United Nations Committee.

It is the first time the US appeared before the Geneva-based UN Committee on Torture since starting its war on terror following the 11 September 2001 attacks.

The head of the US delegation, John Bellinger, said there had been relatively few actual cases of abuse
He said that 30 senior US officials would answer the committee's questions, but could not comment on intelligence activities.

The US has been accused of allowing the torture and inhumane treatment of foreign terror suspects at detention centres in Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere.

www.rte.ie/news/2006/0505/torture.html

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Bechtel still continues to screw up....well screw people over anyway!

2006-05-01T05:51:24Z

OKAAAYYYY!

Let's see if anyone here is smart enough to figure this one out.

Has anyone ever checked out bechtel?

www.bechtel.com

Has anyone seen the 60 minutes today about what Bechtel has done in Washington state?

How about what Bechtel has done with the Boston "Big Dig"?

How about what they do in Iraq?

Is it possible to have an intelligent political Discussion about Bechtel and what they screw up around the world everyday every second? The way their CEO has A hand in the Bush 1 and 2 administrations and what they have to do with the governor of California and in Iran?

Please post some facts as will I.
Thanks.

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Flash Education /w love

2006-04-23T18:14:51Z

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

crickets chirping

2006-04-18T05:34:53Z

Amazing how concervative types tend to disapear when the people they voted for fucks up.
Lets give war a chance shall we?

Bwwwwwwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha!

Is anyone feeling like a sucker yet, because there is tons more to come.

posted in Give War A Chance - 12 replies

Challenge this! Bush and the administration all broke the law.

2006-04-17T12:04:01Z

Ok so I found it. Bush Cheney and the lot belong in jail till this all blows over:

www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...leii.html

Article II
Section 4 of "The Declaration of Independence" and the " Constitution of the United States.". The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Any questions?

posted in Give War A Chance - 4 replies

when was the last time you saw.......

2006-04-14T11:18:25Z

this many Generals opposed to the war?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Urgent!!! Please Help

2006-04-11T03:35:45Z

I am posting this everywhere I possibly can, Please help us.
There are thousands of good people who could potentially lose their lives very soon.

Since the release of the information on the Sujiatun concentration camp in China, which is reported to do live organ harvesting on Falun Gong practicioners. More people have been stepping forward to reveal information. Recently, a veteran military doctor in the region of Shenyang said that the Sujiatun Concentration camp is just one of 36 such camps. Another camp in Jilin Province referred to as 672-S is said to hold over 120,000 people.

According to the Integrated Committee's announcement, transplant hospitals in China are now telling patients to "come in quickly" to get transplants. Patients are told that matching organs can be found at this time in as short as one or two days. The hospitals are also reported to say that, "it will be difficult after this batch of organs is used up."

We fear that there is going to be a mass execution to “hide the evidence” and get rid of witnesses. PLEASE HELP us, Falun Gong practitioners around the world are requesting an international investigation while there is still time.

This is the US petition, please sign it. It can save someone’s life.
http://www.fofg.org/act/act_petition.php?pid=1

you can also help by going here:
http://publicpetition.unvcc.com/UN/index.php
this is an easy, fill in the blank letter that with a click is automatically
sent to the senators and representatives of your choice

You can learn more about this at:
The Epoch Times
http://www.theepochtimes.com/211,111,,1.html
Amnesty International
http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/chn-summary-eng
Falun Dafa Information Center
http://www.faluninfo.net/why/index.asp
or, you can ask me any questions you have by sending me a message.

Thank you,
Joshua

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

LET'S GIVE WAR A CHANCE.. LET'S HAVE WAR IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..

2006-04-09T16:27:05Z

Any comments? I mean, come on. We can form any kind of militia we want.
It's in the constitution.
War is a good thing right?

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

"Give War A Chance " "BRING IT ON!"

2006-04-09T15:13:55Z

BWWWWWwwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Please Give War A Chance !

"BRING IT ON!"

Still liking this war?

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

Why blame the media?

2006-03-27T06:54:08Z

So the new strategy is to blame the media for gathering proof that the war is not going well.
Why is it not the other side ( I am not on any sides here as I have always said..."American politics is bullshit.) cannot gather equal evidence that there is as much, if not more, good point for point happening in Iraq as is bad?

In fact, I'm sure that this Tribe can do the same here in this thread.

No excuses. It would be just as dangerous for journalist to find and broadcast the good news as the bad.

What do you think?

posted in Give War A Chance - 1 reply

Existence of Chinese Concentration Camp, Says Organs Removed from Live Prisoners

2006-03-25T02:53:34Z

Please help us to end this horrible persectuion. knowledge is our greatest weapon, so please share this information. together in peace we can make a difference.

Falun Dafa is a peaceful meditation practice that teaches putting others before yourself, kindness, always telling the truth and being tolerant of others. We are literally being killed for being good people. The national media has done very little to help us because of trade issues with China. It is up to us to let the world know. Please help us.

By Ji Da
The Epoch Times Mar 17, 2006
www.theepochtimes.com

The witness, a former employee at the Liaoning Thrombosis Treatment Center of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine, and says the bodies of Falun Gong practitioners are cremated immediately after the organs are removed. (The Epoch Times)
[High-resolution image ] A former employee of Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine told The Epoch Times during a recent interview that the Sujiatun Concentration Camp in China was actually a part of a hospital. The concentration camp has engaged in taking organs from Falun Gong practitioners when they were still alive and selling the organs. Since 2001, the concentration camp has secretly detained approximately 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners, none of whom have been able to leave the camp alive. The hospital removed many kidneys, livers, and corneas from the practitioners. After the organ removal, the practitioners were thrown into an incinerator, which was converted from a boiler. Their ashes were dumped together with burned charcoal.

Organs from Three Quarters of the 6,000 People Were Removed
Those whose organs were removed were in various states of health. Because many of the victims were illegally detained, there was neither an arrest warrant nor identification as to who these people actually were. Often after their organs were removed, nobody claimed the bodies. Sometimes their bodies were picked up by crooks who pretended to be their family members.

About three-quarters of the 6,000 people died after their hearts, kidneys, corneas, or skin was removed; their bodies were then burned. This witness, whose family member participated in the removal of Falun Gong practitioners' organs, said that approximately 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners remain in the hospital. She was afraid that the authorities would kill all of them to destroy evidence.

The Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine is located at 49 Xuesong Road, Sujiatun, Shenyang City, Liaoning Province, China. It was the first hospital in China to specialize in the heart, the brain, and surrounding blood vessels. The hospital is composed of several organizations, including the Liaoning Traditional Chinese Medicine College Teaching Hospital and the Shenyang Thrombosis Treatment Center.

Concentration Camp Details
The hospital site is 21,087 square meters, with 17,564 square meters of building area. It employs 460 people in 24 departments and 20 specialized offices. Information from the Chinese government shows that the hospital was established in December 1988, and was formerly named the Shenyang Research Institute of Thrombosis and Liaoning Province Thrombosis Treatment Center of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine. In June 1998, it was renamed China Traditional Medicine Thrombosis Treatment Center.

The Chinese Business Morning View said in a story on July 4, 2004, that a farm worker died of abnormal causes in Sujiatun, Shenyang and was later cremated. The death certificate was provided by the Chinese Medicine Thrombosis Treatment Center in Sujiatun. The news caused a stir in China.

Epoch Times: Did the hospital's medical staff inside the concentration camp know about this?

Answer: This hospital has a small number of officials and some doctors involved secretively in the operation of organ harvesting. Some other staff in the hospital knew about this, but this is absolutely a taboo [to talk about]. They all are afraid of being killed or courting trouble, so they all avoid the issue. Only those highly trusted doctors could be chosen to be the surgeons for organ harvesting operations.

ET: Were Falun Gong practitioners alive when their organs were harvested? Did their families know about this?

Answer: Falun Gong practitioners who were imprisoned there came mostly from Dabei Prison, Masanjia Labor Camp, and other prisons in Shenyang, or they were Falun Gong practitioners arrested in parks or residential homes. Because they refused to denounce Falun Gong, they were arrested without formal warrants, and their families did not know their situation. Many did not even have their names [recorded]. In addition, since the Chinese authority exercises a policy of "not being responsible" for killing Falun Gong practitioners, the death of Falun Gong practitioners is not a very big issue for prisons. The Chinese Communist Party persecutes Falun Gong, [but] these medical personnel were told Falun Gong practitioners were facing death because they killed people, or they were sentenced to death because of crimes, or they had become insane from practicing Falun Gong.

Those Falun Gong practitioners whose organs were harvested came from several types.

Organs harvested from live bodies are worth far more than organs taken from dead bodies. Many Falun Gong practitioners were still alive when their organs were taken. After their organs were cut out, some of these people were thrown directly into the crematorium to be burnt, thus leaving no evidence. For some others, after their organs were stolen, the doctor sewed up the wound and asked the family or family representative to give a signature for cremation. Family members did not know at all that the dead had their organs taken out.

Furthermore, there were some healthy Falun Gong practitioners in prisons in other areas who were injected—without their knowledge—with psychoactive drugs that made their minds confused. They then were transferred to Sujiantun concentration camp to suffer further torture, till in the end their organs were harvested and their bodies were cremated in secret.

Among the Falun Gong practitioners whose organs were harvested, some were weak and some were healthy. Since most of them were illegally arrested, there were no arrest warrants or identification cards. After their organs were taken out while they were still alive, no one came to claim their bodies; or [sometimes] people using fake identities claimed their bodies.

None of these people have come out [of the concentration camp] alive; three-quarters of these 6,000 people have died, having their hearts, kidneys, retinas, and skins harvested and their bodies disposed of. I think now about 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners are still in this hospital, and I am afraid now that the authority will destroy all evidence and kill them.

Question: How did you know these things? Were you yourself a doctor involved in organ harvesting?

Answer: I worked at the Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine, Shenyang. This is exactly where this concentration camp is located. One of my family members was involved in the operation to harvest Falun Gong practitioners' organs. This has brought great pain to our family.

Question: Please tell us what you knew about.

Answer: From 2001, our hospital started to detain Falun Gong practitioners. At the beginning, these people were detained in the single-storey houses in the back yard of the hospital. Later, the hospital authorities demolished the single-storey houses, and it was unknown where in the hospital the Falun Gong practitioners were transferred. Many staff of the hospital discussed in private that these Falun Gong practitioners had been secretly transferred to the underground chambers of the hospital. According to some people working inside the hospital, the hospital has a huge system of secret underground chambers.

At the time when we went to work there, the person in charge of logistics and purchasing in the hospital said that the quantity of disposable sterile gloves used for operations and daily supplies that the hospital authorities asked to be purchased had increased dramatically. The logistics people estimated based on the scale of purchases at that time that there were at least 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners detained in this hospital.

These Falun Gong practitioners were not detained in the 4-story building under the in-patient department and administration at the front of the hospital, in order to keep the hospital staff from seeing them at all. We only occasionally saw Falun Gong practitioners being sent on a mobile intensive care bed to the first floor for physical examinations. These people were very weak. For the majority of the Falun Gong practitioners, nobody knew where they were being secretly kept. While they still did not know where these people were kept, some staff inquired to the hospital authorities about why so much food and so many sterile gloves and daily supplies were purchased. The hospital authorities said, "You only need to do your job well. There is no need for you to ask any other questions."

Starting in 2001, a family member of mine participated in organ-harvesting operations. My family member tried to keep me from knowing about this at the beginning. The hospital authorities selected doctors they trust in different aspects to perform the secretive operations. After a period of time, I found that my family member was in a lot pain, often had nightmares, and appeared panic-stricken. After repeated inquiries, this family member told me the truth. The leader of the hospital had asked my family member to participate in the organ harvesting operations on Falun Gong practitioners as early as 2001. It was 2003 when my family member confessed. A few years after, my family member felt so much pain from participating in this incident that it was impossible to continue with the evildoing. My family member decided to go abroad to get away from this matter.

My family member also told me: "you don't understand my suffering; those Falun Gong practitioners were alive. It might be easier for me if they were dead, but they were alive."

Question: Were there any other doctors from the hospital taking part in the operations of cutting out Falun Gong practitioners' organs?

Answer: I know there were some. All these things have been carried out secretly. Many doctors at our hospital involved were practicum doctors transferred from other hospitals. Because the government does not want to be responsible for Falun Gong practitioners' bodies and lives, their lives are treated as garbage by the regime, and their bodies were used in experiments by new doctors doing their practitcums.

Many doctors came and left the hospital because they suffered a lot after having been involved in these kinds of things. They either requested to be transferred to other places, or changed their names. Some might have been killed to eliminate the evidence, their identity files were taken out from the hospital's filing system, or their names were changed. Nobody knows where the doctors have gone.

The hospital staff all know that the rear part of the hospital is forbidden. It is always watched. The staff avoids talking about the place.

Question: It is said the hospital is equipped with an incinerator. The person whose organs were removed will be burned when he or she is still alive. Is that true?

Answer: The employees in our hospital call this place "the incinerator." Actually, it is a boiler room. Some poor farmers from nearby places were hired to work in the boiler room. They were penniless when they first came here. But they could scrape up some watches, finger rings, necklaces, and so on. The amount is not small. It is said by the employees in the hospital these jewelry and watches were collected from the Falun Gong practitioners whose organs had been removed when they were about to be thrown in the boiler to be burned. It is also said by the employees in the hospital, some were still alive when being thrown into the boiler.

Question: Do they get injection of anesthetic when in surgery?

Answer: Yes. There is a cap to the anesthetic quantity used in mainland China's hospitals. Generally, the supply of anesthetic was determined according to the accommodation of the hospital. To the public, the number of patients in our care appears to be very small, and publicly reported number of surgical procedures performed is quite low. But the equipment and articles used in surgery are abundant. Because the amount of anesthetic is limited, these secret surgeries could not use the normal anesthetic doses. In order to save anesthetic, they economized on the anesthetic used in surgeries on these Falun Gong practitioners. The amount of anesthetic used was very small. However, many whose organs were removed were still alive. You can imagine the pain suffered by the Falun Gong practitioners whose organs were removed.

Question: Are there any survivors among the 6,000 people detained since 2001?

Answer: Nobody has come out alive. The number of them gets smaller and smaller. The Falun Gong practitioners detained at Sujiatun are fewer now than before. But I believe that the sin of removing the organs of the Falun Gong practitioners is still continuing.

Question: Where are these organs usually sold to? Do the higher authorities in the government know about this?

Answer: They are mainly sold to Thailand, but I believe they are also sold to other regions of the world. Nowadays, there are many patients in China who need human skin, corneas, and kidneys for organ transplant surgeries. Many patients have to wait in line to purchase organs. Currently, a kidney can be sold up to the price of 30,000 to 100,000 U.S. dollars. The profit from selling organs is simply too great. The people who benefit from this are not only the top leaders of hospital and the officials of the Chinese Communist Party's Heath Department. This is a crime present across the entire nation. People ranging from government officials to doctors to organ sellers are all involved in this and are profiting greatly.

Question: Why did they target Falun Gong practitioners as the source of organs?

Answer: Because relatives of many Falun Gong practitioners don't even know that their family members were arrested. So if the Falun Gong practitioners are killed, there will be no one to come and claim their dead bodies.

Question: Why did you want to expose this? This may bring great danger to you.

Answer: I know that there are many Falun Gong practitioners who are currently detained at the hospital. I would like to expose this to the international community, so those who are not yet killed can be saved. Also, I would like to expose this as an atonement for my family.

I am not a Falun Gong practitioner. But as a former staff member of the hospital, I have the responsibility to expose the truth, and let the world to save those Falun Gong practitioners who are still alive. Organs of some Falun Gong practitioners are still living on patients' bodies. I would like to call on all society to pay attention to this issue and stop this shocking crime.

you can find out how you can help at www.fofg.org

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

More war please.

2006-03-16T12:40:21Z

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/15/AR2006031502297.html

Bush to Restate Terror Strategy
2002 Doctrine of Preemptive War To Be Reaffirmed

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 16, 2006; Page A01

President Bush plans to issue a new national security strategy today reaffirming his doctrine of preemptive war against terrorists and hostile states with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, despite the troubled experience in Iraq.

The long-overdue document, an articulation of U.S. strategic priorities that is required by law, lays out a robust view of America's power and an assertive view of its responsibility to bring change around the world. On topics including genocide, human trafficking and AIDS, the strategy describes itself as "idealistic about goals and realistic about means."

The strategy expands on the original security framework developed by the Bush administration in September 2002, before the invasion of Iraq. That strategy shifted U.S. foreign policy away from decades of deterrence and containment toward a more aggressive stance of attacking enemies before they attack the United States.

The preemption doctrine generated fierce debate at the time, and many critics believe the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq fatally undermined an essential assumption of the strategy -- that intelligence about an enemy's capabilities and intentions can be sufficient to justify preventive war.

In his revised version, Bush offers no second thoughts about the preemption policy, saying it "remains the same" and defending it as necessary for a country in the "early years of a long struggle" akin to the Cold War. In a nod to critics in Europe, the document places a greater emphasis on working with allies and declares diplomacy to be "our strong preference" in tackling the threat of weapons of mass destruction.

"If necessary, however, under long-standing principles of self defense, we do not rule out use of force before attacks occur, even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack," the document continues. "When the consequences of an attack with WMD are potentially so devastating, we cannot afford to stand idly by as grave dangers materialize."

Such language could be seen as provocative at a time when the United States and its European allies have brought Iran before the U.N. Security Council to answer allegations that it is secretly developing nuclear weapons. At a news conference in January, Bush described an Iran with nuclear arms as a "grave threat to the security of the world."

Some security specialists criticized the continued commitment to preemption. "Preemption is and always will be a potentially useful tool, but it's not something you want to trot out and throw in everybody's face," said Harlan Ullman, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "To have a strategy on preemption and make it central is a huge error."

A military attack against Iran, for instance, could be "foolish," Ullman said, and it would be better to seek other ways to influence its behavior. "I think most states are deterrable."

Thomas Donnelly, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute who has written on the 2002 strategy, said the 2003 invasion of Iraq in the strict sense is not an example of preemptive war, because it was preceded by 12 years of low-grade conflict and was essentially the completion of the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Still, he said, recent problems there contain lessons for those who would advocate preemptive war elsewhere. A military strike is not enough, he said; building a sustainable, responsible state in place of a rogue nation is the real challenge.

"We have to understand preemption -- it's not going to be simply a preemptive strike," he said. "That's not the end of the exercise but the beginning of the exercise."

The White House plans to release the 49-page National Security Strategy today, starting with a speech by national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley to the U.S. Institute of Peace. The White House gave advance copies to The Washington Post and three other newspapers.

You can read the rest here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/15/AR2006031502297_2.html

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

What some are really not facing.......

2006-03-13T12:39:01Z

Is reality.

Most afraid Americans have a very hard time dealing with reality.

When a few people think that oppressing and invading poor peoples land and properties is a good thing, it leaves very little options to the oppressed, but to use extreem venues that will allow them to free themselves from their oppressors.

I'm sure anyone that thinks to argue this point wont get very far, however I am sure there are a few geneticlly inferior beings that will make the attempt only to fail.
They are though, most welcomed to try.

posted in Give War A Chance - 12 replies

What we are really facing.

2006-02-28T00:04:39Z

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=99327

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

Really wish I'd said this

2006-02-22T01:28:44Z

http://www.reason.com/rb/rb021706.shtml

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

may be the end to war....

2006-02-15T02:42:56Z

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002152.html

of course along the way we may all find out what our fore fathers knew all along, that the opposite of war is rarely peace and often slavery.

posted in Give War A Chance - 2 replies

thermobaric weapons

2006-01-06T22:42:16Z

There is a lot of talk about of thermobaric weapons. http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001944.html

I for one think that using technology to enhance lethality is paramount since we need to be better than the next guy. Put a bunch of liberals in a house and shoot one of these in, and it will not only suck the air out of their lungs so they can't bitch and whine anymore, but it also ignite and vaporize them.

Thoughts?

posted in Give War A Chance - 5 replies

If President Bush really cared about a war on terror

2005-11-27T18:43:02Z

If President Bush really cared about a war on terror he'd have troops in Uganda tracking down this dirtbag rebel leader Joseph Kony who kidnaps children & forces them to also kidnap & kill - or be killed. One 12 year was forced to kill his own mother or, his entire family would be killed. Joseph Kony claims to be the messiah.

"He imagines he’s a reincarnation of Jesus and calls his group “The Lord’s Resistance Army.” With virtually no popular support, he has increasingly resorted to abducting children to fight for him— against not only government forces but his own civilian people. His army has stolen as many as 30,000 innocent kids since the war began.

He is anything but a defender of the people. He terrorizes.“Your nose will be cut off together with your ears and in the end the sword will kill you. Your children will be taken into captivity and they will be burnt to death,” he says on video tapes."

"Dateline" traveled to Northern Uganda to report on "night commuters:" tens of thousands of children forced to hide in the night to escape being killed or abducted by rebels. If captured by the rebels, these children of war are torn from their families and forced to become soldiers under the maniacal leadership of Joseph Kony. Who is he? And why is his reign of terror unknown to most people in the world?

Around northern Uganda, little children who don’t find a safe place at night are in danger. And so are adults. People who are found by the rebels can be burnt to death, or beyond recognition. Body parts are cut off — noses, lips, ears, fingers.

Jan Egeland is the of the United Nation’s head of disaster relief. He’s seen it all. But nothing like this. "His is terror like no other terror," he says. “I’ve been in a hundred countries. I’ve been working with human rights, peace, and humanitarian problems for 25 years. I was shocked to my bones, seeing what happened in Uganda. For me, this is one of the biggest scandals of our time and generation.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9006024/

posted in Give War A Chance - 15 replies

Compassion

2005-08-21T20:10:59Z

http://www.anysoldier.com/Stuff/WheelChairStory/

I had to post this...real neat

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

When did WW III start???? try around 1979... read on

2005-08-20T23:20:17Z

A must read historical account of Terrorism against the US ~

This is not very long, but very informative. You have to read the catalogue
of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the
position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit
back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother
us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979...
That alarm has been ringing for years.

US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station,
Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is
an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this
action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than
3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should
have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been
buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll
over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked
and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright
attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most
powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this
sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25
years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and
had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then President Carter had
to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The
ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's
inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the
end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly
organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was
doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and
killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her
citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983, a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven
into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63
people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once
more.

Then, just six short months later in 1983, a large truck heavily laden down
with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine
Corps headquarters in Beirut, and 241 US servicemen are killed. America
mourned her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is
driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate
of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a
restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then, in August 1985, a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into
the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main. 22 are killed and the
snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually
attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro, is hijacked
and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the
passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when
they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4, and the most
tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing
259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying
to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two
CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley,
Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested
after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground
parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are
killed and over 1000 are injured. Still, this is a crime and not an act of
war. The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then, in November 1995, a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later, in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35
yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys
the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over
500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America
does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US
embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with
precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and
goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12
October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded,
killing 17 US Navy sailors. Attacking a US war ship is an act of war, but
we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans
think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong
they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose
to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high
official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But
if you've read the papers and paid a little attention, I think you can see
exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the
National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since
1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we
have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a
people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act
decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to
pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues.
We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll
over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all
we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to
disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage,
politically or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't
have the backbone to do, both Democrat and Republican. This is not a
political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN
thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years
to come.

If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can,
especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class
and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action. If you
don't believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.

posted in Give War A Chance - 0 replies

If you touch me again...

2005-08-15T19:51:13Z

Mikus posted this on I Love Trouble. It had to go here.

Here's a quote from a government employee who witnessed a recent
interaction between an elderly woman and an antiwar protester in a Metro station in DC:

There were protesters on the train platform handing out pamphlets on the
evils of America. I politely declined to take one. An elderly woman was
behind me getting off the escalator and a young (20 ish) female protester
offered her a pamphlet, which she politely declined.

The young protester put her hand on the old woman's shoulder as a gesture
of friendship and in a very soft voice said, "Ma'am, don't you care about the
children of Iraq?"

The old woman looked up at her and said, "Honey, my first husband died in
France during World War II, my second husband died in Korea, both so you
could have the right to stand here and bad mouth our country. If you touch
me again. I'll stick this umbrella up your ass and open it."

posted in Give War A Chance - 4 replies

GWS - movie

2005-08-11T05:52:02Z

Anybody ever hear about or see a movie titled -

"Gulf War Syndrome:Against all enemies"

I saw it when I was in Australia in 2000. I came back to the states a year later & it was as if it never existed at all. It starred Ted Danson (cheers) & others. It had 5 or 6 REAL gulf vets in uniform telling their stories in the movie. It was about how the US placed those chemical weapons over their in Iraq & then put the blame on Saddam & then, the air force (had no Idea but the higher ups did) destroyed them & contaminated our own army troops so that they could be tested. the movie is based on true stories & is part movie, part documentary.

Does anybody know how or where to get it?

posted in Give War A Chance - 3 replies

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